A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

[LibertyHallVols]

OK, Craig asked, so here you go...
Pics of one US M1841 (aka "Mississippi") Rifle, defarbigalated by Mess'r Todd Watts.

As they say, pictures are worth 1,000 words, so I'll let them do the talking. However, let me say this...
- The National Armory Brown finish is really great. I've always had a soft spot for this finish over the "National Armory Bright" polished finish.
- This rifle has the best functioning lock of any Italian repro musket I've ever handled - bar none.

Enjoy!

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Thanks for posting those pictures Wick! I have a feeling that I'm going to "need" one of these very soon. If only I could find a Garrett M1841 to send him!

[Peachfuz]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Wick,
What caliber is the piece?

P.S. I like the Thomas the Train tracks in the background. Melissa & Doug do some fine woodwork.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Rich,

Thank you! I agree... but, if we're going to discuss Melissa & Doug, I think I'll have to move this thread to the "Other Vendors" forum. ;)

To answer your question, its a .58 cal.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

I always say start out with a better rifle (like a Zoli US 1841), and end up with a better de-farbed rifle in the end. Watts has a couple more Zolis and a Bernadelli he will be doing with various makers and configurations. A good case can be made for keeping them simple--it is part of their charm--but that one with the long range sight is just plain easy on the eyes. It has a bit of cosmetic damage to the patch box door as I recall, but not too bad for a thirty year old weapon. Feels good in your hands. Nicely marked as the photos show. Great brown barrel finish, which is built up.

And yes, the lock function is much better on the A. Zolis than the Euroarms. I did a bit of tuning work on it. The springs are nice for an older gun. I like that one quite a bit. Think you are going to keep it, Wick?

[PieBoy96]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Just curious... were some original Harpers Ferry stamps in the sans-serif typeface as shown? Images online show stamps from Phila., Whitney ('N. Haven'), and Robins and Lawrence ('Windsor Vt') seem to be a serif typeface, and I did find many Harpers Ferry stamps in serif, but none in sans-serif. Of course these are only a few samples.

http://www.sharpsburg-arsenal.com/collection/rifles-/-muskets/m1841-harpers-ferry-mississippi-sabre-bayonet/prod_16.html

http://www.sharpsburg-arsenal.com/collection/rifles-/-muskets/m1841-harpers-ferry-mississippi-d1846/prod_17.html

http://www.horsesoldier.com/catalog/75-621d.JPEG

http://www.19thcenturyweapons.com/909/misslongrange.html

[Todd Watts]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

I used alpha-numeric stamps I had on-hand for that one, which are arial font. This was just a test-run project and I will be getting better stamps to handle the MS rifles this year. Personally, my pride with this one was in keeping the stamps so neatly arranged considering I did them by hand. took quite a bit of voo-doo encantations on my part with each stamp to get them that close.;) I should have stamps in a couple of months and be able to start cranking out MS rifles.

[unclefrank]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

That do look nice!

[PieBoy96]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Todd,

Awesome about the stamps... and wow, VERY well done for doing each letter individually! That minute detail caught my eye and I had just wondered if it was intentional or for the reason you stated.

Either way, fine job on the MS!

[Craig L Barry]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Really? I did not catch the different font, I thought Todd must have had a stamp made for HF. You did do well keeping the letters in line. Wow. I think Robbins and Lawrence was one stamp being tossed around. Personally, I think Whitney is pretty cool, too.

Wicket-a-pedia, if you don't want the HF send her home. I think I can find a home for it. May even keep it to use at the park.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Hallo!

I give great credit to lads who undergo the time and expense of lockplate stamps, especially when one considers that a hardened steel stamp can cost several hundred dollars to have made and the "machinery" to "strike" a uniform and consistent depth stamping can be large and even more expensive than a claw hammer.
ESPECIALLY when considering the small "demand" for M1841's!!!

(I paid $300 for my HF 1851 dated M1841 stamp.)

Stamps can be a study in and of themselves. First because they vary by arsenal and/or contractor (as do the U.S. "eagles" and proof marks), and second because they vary over time as stamps wore out or multiple stamps were in use at the same time or over time.

James River offers, or used to offer, several redone Italian M1841 lockplates that included Whitney. (IIRC, I have a Whitney plate on my Colt contract M1841 alteration.)

Curt

[minieball]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Just curious. What M1841 variant does this defarb represent?

Todd, your browning looks quite good and I sure don't envy anyone fooling around with those crap Italian locks. Mr. Barry is quite correct that the early Zoli products are about as good as they get.

[Todd Watts]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

I took pics of an original Harpers Ferry variant and copied markings as closely as I could with what I had available on this one. My stamps are Cobalt to allow long-life on case-hardened parts like lockplates and sears. It is not cost effective to have a stamp made for 1-2 guns though so I have to use other stamps and my hand-gravers to mimic others. Browing like that takes a few days to accomplish which means the MS rifle will be slower than the Enfield and a lot slower than the Springfields, but I am looking forward to doing some of them. I'm in the process now of getting stamps drawn and measured to be sent to the shop for pricing (dreaded gulp) and then decide which I have to have and which I can do without for a while.

[Todd Watts]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Something I am wondering that some of you nit-pickin' nut cases might be able to shed light on is this; is there a difference in the lock plate eagles? I see originals looking left, some right, some with a drooped wing others with wings up, some wide and some tall and narrow. I am drawing a Harper's Ferry stamp design eagle now based off an original that is looking left with both wings stretched upward. But I have seen the other designs as well and am wondering if there was some reason for the differences. I wouldn't want to make a fatal eagle faux paw right off the bat and have 1 of you wackos scream at me.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Hallo!

I am not a "nit-pickin' nut case" but I will try to answer the question anyways as a student of the Past...

;) :)

Just a-funnin'...

(I don't know why folks think I only know "stuff" about guns. :) )

Short answer, yes, there are major and minor differences in the eagles.

Longer answer...

Yes, one can make a study of the "eagle" on US firearms!!!!

In brief and to over-generalize...

From the beginning, the form of US firearm eagle stampings is LEGION!
The eagle looks like an eagle or a drowned chicken. Its wings fly, spread, or droop. It stretches it neck or crouches. Its eyes glare boldy and defiantly or state blankly. It may hold arrows or olive branches in one claw or the other, or just sit on perch without either. It may hold a pair of arrows ands a single olive branch or multiples. Its beak may be closed, slightly open, or wide oopen and biting. It sometimes wears a shield with stripes and stars or just stripes on its chest, other times not. It sometimes grips a banner in its beak, usually not. It looks left or it looks right (incorrectly said to be a "peace eagle" if it looks toward the olive branches, and a "war eagle" when it looks toward the side with the arrows. Etc.

And not only do the eagles change over time, they change among the two Federal armories and the generations of contractors.

Plus the stamps wore out and were sometiems replaced with new ones that were similar but not identical to what they replaced.

And, the strength and vigor or the stamper along with the hardness of the lock plate created contrasting depths of the strike imprints.

Still being brief (ha ha) and over-generalized...

In 1840 Springfield reverted back to a more conservative smallish eagle with minor differences from the 1816 eagle. It is short and fat with drooping wings.
The M1841 Rifle and M1842 Musket used the same eagle as the M1835/1840 flintock. That being a "peace eagle" looking right over a spread wing and an olive branch, with a dropped left eing over two arrows. Its beak is half open.

The eagle did not change much until the new M1855 series arms. The 1855 ealge is larger, leaning toward the right, beak closed or nearly closed, wings outstretched, head looking to the left where the olive branch is now with five arrows in the right claw. Although there are slight variations, it seems to have been taken from the National Seal eagle.

The eagle changed again in 1861, but was basically the same form but smaller (wing tip to wing tip 5/8th's versus the previous 3/4th's).

The eagle changed a bit again in 1863 to be the model for future armory birds closed beak, ragged looking bird, misisng teh tuft of feathers on its head. The eye is funny, and beak is hooked downwards.

And then there was Harpers Ferry...

Trying to bring uniformity with the M1822 musket, the Ordnance Board was trying to bring a new degree of 'standardization."

But they dropped the ball on the Harpers' Ferry eagle. It is fat, squat and has really anemic, sickly, droopy wings, and permanently shifted its arrows and olive branch is on the side the eagle is looking at.

That changed in 1840 for the new M1841 Rifle and M1842 musket. Harpers Ferry went to a proud, erect, "fit" eagle with outspread wings. IT looks left over the olive branch and is holding five arrows in its right claw. The rifle and musket eagles are similar but NOT identical. Both are poorer stamps, with less sharpness and detail such as in the numbers and fineness of feathers. Both seem to appear like the Springfield eagles did during the
1830's.

Conformity was achieved with the M1855 series arms. The Harpers Ferry eagle is nearly identical to the Springfield 1855 eagle.

Harpers Ferry did not make the jump to the new M1861. However, the Harpers Ferry M1841 eagle stamp or stamps were sent to Fayetteville and used on the Fayetteville rifles.

Contractor eagles would take me forever to describe, sorry.... Just as the barrel proofs...

And last, there are the repro Italian eagles... :(

Curt