A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

[Daniel]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

David, thank you for your comments. I think you are on to something regarding the possiblilty of the 7th Tenn possibly using that brass clamp on device for a saber bayonet. It certainly makes sense. To my knowledge I do not think anyone makes a brass one. It would make a great addition to an impression.

(I was not very clear about this so let me clarify one thing. The only regiment in Archer's Brigade issued Miss rifles was the 7th Tenn. My ancestor unit's, the 14th were issued percussion muskets. They were probably very envious of the 7th Tenn's beautiful Miss rifles.)

Dan Stewart

[mslaird]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

David,

I too have been wondering, for quite some time, why no one has offered a reproduction brass adapter for the Mississippi. It does not seem that it would be too difficult to cast.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Hallo!

For that matter, it would be nice to have a steel repro where the lug did not snap off from the clamping band...

(Once Upon a Time, Marinos in G-burg used to sell originals.)

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Craig,

I saw your article on the "W. Greener, British Gun Maker" in Military Collector & Historian. (Journal of the Company of Military Historians for those not familiar)

Very interesting and well done indeed!

Mark Hubbs
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the kind words, Mark. William Greener was an author as well as a gunmaker. He wrote "The Science of Gunnery" and several other books. It only took sixty years to get MC&H to run something on the subject of the Civil War Enfield, but they did run one. My hope is that this will open things up a bit and they will get some additional research article submissions on similar subjects. Maybe something on the Mississippi Rifle now that the ice is broken?

[cpinkhaminsc]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Dixie sells a "bayonet adapter ring", it's steel and they say it's for the 1855 rifle bayonet. May need some fussing with but looks like it would work.
You guys have me drooling for an 1841, stop it, stop it now! :D

Charles Pinkham
Company D
First Minnesota

[Jim Mayo]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

The Dixie bayonet adapter is pure junk. If you are never going to attach a bayonet it may work for eyewash. The metal is inferior and the welding is even worse. I have had two or three and all were equally bad. I had a lug welded on the barrel for my last Mississippi project.

The reproduction M-1855 saber bayonets are also a very poor reproduction. They weigh almost a pound more than the originals and look much bigger and are very cumbersome to carry. You need to have the rifleman’s rig to support the weight of the bayonet. The manufacture and working of the release mechanism in the handle is poor to the point of sometimes not being able to remove the bayonet with out holding your mouth right.

Needless to say they don't even approach feeling like an original.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

You know, quite a few were never fitted for bayonets of any kind...it is hardly incorrect to carry one in its original no-bayonet brass front sight configuration. I am having Todd de-farb an old Mississippi repro of unknown heritage (vintage 1972) this way. Since the bayonets for this weapon are generally poor reproductions, why fool with it? The rifle is heavy enough without a bayonet.

[Todd Watts]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Dan, I do not know which version the 7th went in with, but there is a man named Bob Parker here in Murfreesboro I am talking to about the 7th. He is in the process of writing a history of the unit and has sent me some copies of research he's done. Today he sent me a scanned copy of a requisition from Col. Hatton dated 16 Dec., 1861 while in VA. He was requesting 50,000+ rounds of ammunition specifically for the MS rifles. Mr. Parker has told me he has come across references relating to caliber .54 ammunition on these orders and after G'burg the orders changed to .58 and references appear in the reqs speaking about Springfields. It appears that after G'burg the unit started re-equipping with the more common .58" arms and were getting issued standard musketry.

Incidentally, this same req. requests 52 bayonets for the MS rifles, so some of the guns were evidently fitted with a lug of some type while most others at the time must not have been.

My ancestor was wounded and effectively taken out of the 7th at Cedar Mt. in Aug '62 so I know he was using a MS rifle there, most likely of the .54 variety. He did not return to the 7th until Petersburg and so was carrying something in .58 in all probability. Sure wish I could locate a picture of him.

[threepdr]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

I found this article from the American Society of Arms Collectors regarding the sword bayonets and attachement conversions done on the M41s. Good article with some good pics.

If you do one of these conversions keep in mind that you cannot mix and match parts. There were several companies/arsenals which did conversions and each had a suite of changes they made to the rifle in regard to sights, upper bands, new rammers and bayonet lugs. Make sure your choice of parts and changes are consistant with one of the conversion programs.

I have a data sheet on what changes are correct for each conversion program. It is in PDF format but I don't know how to make it availible to the group. If someone has a way to post it to the web I'd be glad to email it to them. It was done by the NSSA many years ago.

http://asoac.org/bulletins/90_bergllund_sword.pdf

[Michael Comer]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

That's some really good stuff Mark.

[Todd Watts]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

COOL! More markings to whack onto guns!:D

[Craig L Barry]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Mark Hubbs...good stuff in that article. I also sent Todd a cheat sheet of the common Mississippi Rifle conversions and how they were set up for bayonet. Bottom line, these are good weapons for a variety of scenarios and once there are some decent alternatives in terms of reproductions available, my hope is that they will come out of the closet and see some event time.

The number of older Bernadelli and Zoli 1841s that I picked up (some in unfired condition) suggests their previous owners gave them light use or did not shoot them at all. All this is hopefully about to change...

[emartinez]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Gents,

This thread has been not only educational, but GREAT FUN! I have been inspired to do some more research on marks and original rifles available, and thought I would share this Mississippi Rifle with Merrill conversion I found on an antique gun auction website. A whole 'nother set of marks!

Thanks for sharing all you knowledge!

(oh, by the way, it is only $13,000...if only I can find where I hung them pants...)

[mslaird]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

Gents,

This thread has been not only educational, but GREAT FUN! I have been inspired to do some more research on marks and original rifles available, and thought I would share this Mississippi Rifle with Merrill conversion I found on an antique gun auction website. A whole 'nother set of marks!

Thanks for sharing all you knowledge!

(oh, by the way, it is only $13,000...if only I can find where I hung them pants...)

That is outstanding! I was hoping that someone would have some photos of one of these to post. The last one that I saw was completely out of my financial constraints, too. They are pretty uncommon to see. Thanks for posting.

[cpinkhaminsc]

Re: A Mississippi Rifle by Todd Watts

You could always sell a kidney!
... or one of your children.

Charles Pinkham
Company D
First Minnesota