1835 Springfield Carbine Conversion

[emartinez]

Hi,

I posted this originally on the Cavalry Forum, but as someone with information I may neee might not do cavalry, I thought to post here as well.

A while back, I picked up a funny looking .69 musket with the "drum and nipple" or "French" percussion conversion. The barrel has been cut to 28" and the stock has been tapered and only extends 3" past the first barrel band, and a metal loop to hold the ramrod (not present) has been braised on to the bottom of the barrel; these modifications appear to be very old. My recent research indicates that this musket was probably an 1835 Springfield-type musket, although the lock plate is only marked "warranted" without any furthe cartouches or marking that I can find...other than a hand-carved "K" in the buttstock. I posted pix on my CW Reenactors page: http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/album.php?albumid=114

I am wondering whether any such conversions were ever used by Confederate cavalry or artillery, as I cannot find any references to this type of use, although the 1835-1840 pattern muskets were used throughout the South during the war. The reason I am asking is that I am trying to find an historical basis to possibly use this musket in connection with a Western theater confederate cavalry impression.

Has anyone any information as to whether this may be an appropriate arm to use for that purpose?

Also, regardless of the answer, I need to find replacement lock plate springs, as mine are missing. Any suggestions there as well?

Thanks and regards,

[ACo.]

Re: 1835 Springfield Carbine Conversion

You have an interesting shotgun but it was not modified as a cavalry carbine or as any sort of military short gun. It did start life as a US M1840 Flintlock musket (often mistakenly called the M1835) but it was almost certainly shortened in the post Civil War era into a percussion shotgun. Such conversions were commonly done as inexpensive guns for those "on a budget". The lock is not the correct or original lock for the gun, it is a British musket lock for the India Pattern Brown Bess, likely from a British private purchase militia version since there are no government property marks. The percussion conversion of the original lock and barrel may have been done in the 1855 - 1862 period for military use during the war but the present lock was probably added post-war.

[emartinez]

Re: 1835 Springfield Carbine Conversion

Thomas,

Thanks for the analysis and for sharing your knowledge!

Where could I go to get more info on this type of lock plate?

If I could find a period Springfield "conversion" plate, would that add to potential authenticity or just be a proverbial "sow's ear" exercise?

[emartinez]

Re: 1835 Springfield Carbine Conversion

Thomas,

What type of "original lock" might this musket have had if converted for wartime use? The original M1840 lock with a percussion hammer?

Which armory (ies) used this type of screw-in drum and nipple conversion?

Thanks again.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: 1835 Springfield Carbine Conversion

Hallo!

IMHO...

It is already "authentic" as is- that being a post War surplus "poorman's shotgun" that was missing a part or two and a antique dealer added some missing parts from the parts box.

Going to the time and expense of adding an M1840 percussion conversion lockplate will not add to its "Civil War-ness" at all.

In brief and to over-generalize...

The "preferred" armory conversion process was the so-called "Belgian" or "cone in barrel" types done by the U.S. and some contractors. The first US style was the "French" method using a screwed in drum with cone. This was also a widespread civilian method but also shows up on some Confederate States and Southern gunsmith pieces.
These two were okay for roundball, but were felt unsafe for the redone .69 Elongated Ball altered rifled or rifled-and-sighted muskets.

"The Southern Arsenal" and "The Northern Armory: The United States Armory at Springfield, Massachusetts 1795-1859" by Hartzler and Whisker are one basic primer with photographs.
Reilly's "United States Martial FLintlocks" is not bad either but has drawings instead of photos.

Curt

[emartinez]

Re: 1835 Springfield Carbine Conversion

Thank you, Curt!

You are a gentleman and a scholar...at least until proven otherwise!

Shucks, I guess I have to keep hunting for that Mississippi Rifle...!

[ACo.]

Re: 1835 Springfield Carbine Conversion

Good reply Herr Schmidt. :) A "correct", usable lock would probably cost more than you already have in the gun and would not raise the value that much. Best to enjoy it as it is.

[rake]

Re: 1835 Springfield Carbine Conversion

An example of a conversion: