Greatcoats for Confederates

[UKReb]

Hello from Ole Blighty,

Been looking for info on the types of greatcoats worn in the ANV around 1863. I have seen post on the forum about British imported garments and also info from fellow re-enactors about the wearing of captured Federal ones. But what I'm after is something on the most common types/patterns/fadric of greatcoats worn by Virginia troops, mid war, if possible.

I really hope you can help me in my quest.

Thanks

Simon Morse (UK Confederate!)

[J.Whitley]

Re: Greatcoats for Confederates

Simon,

I'm sure someone far more savy than I will pop on in a second, but I thought I'd chime in here with some corollary information. I do know that eastern theatre troops, at least North Carolinians, were provided by the state government with significant numbers of greatcoats, at least in 1861-62. The initial issue for the 37th NCT, for instance, lists them as having received more greatcoats than kepis & jackets combined. What the patterns on those were, I have no idea, whether they were contracted or civilian pattenr or what, but I imagine for 1862-63, the period you seem to be interested in, that an issue overcoat would work as well as anything.

[Ken Myers]

Re: Greatcoats for Confederates

I know the Irish Jasper Greens, while in Savannah, were issued Black English Greatcoats in 1862. Only one issue of these were given out during the war. These most likely came in on the Fingal. The information came from the Orderly Book of the Greens which is in the Georgia Historical Society.
The Hart diary, he was a member of the Greens, stated that they were issue English military shoes while at Fort Pulaski. A copy of this is in the Savannah Public Library. And the quartermaster report from 1862 stated that the men in the river batteries where issued English Tweed trousers. Also, they had on hand a lot of English cloth jackets with brass buttons on them. This came fron the Department of South Carolina, Georgia and Florida records in the National Archieves.
Anyone have any idea what the English Tweed trouser would have looked like?
Yours,
Ken Myers

[PieBoy96]

Re: Greatcoats for Confederates

The old Gettsyburg NMP visitor center had an interesting quote along side their CS overcoat display. It read:


"The men came to the conclusion that the trouble of carrying them [overcoats] on hot days outweighed the comfort of having them when the cold day arrived . . . some clung to their overcoats to the last, but the majority got tired of lugging them around, and either discarded them altogether, or trusted to capturing one about the time it would be needed. Nearly every overcoat in the army in the later years of the war was one of Uncle Sam's captured from his boys."

Carelton McCarthy, ANV


Remember that his last statement is just from his perspective in whatever unit he was in. If 3/4 of the overcoats in my division were US captured, I'd also say something of the same effect... so don't take it too literally.

Also, pages 150-151 in the CS Echoes of Glory show several examples of CS overcoats.

[4thVirginiaSoldier]

Re: Greatcoats for Confederates

Not sure if anyone else covered this one yet, but you could possibly use "captured" Federal greatcoats or simply no greatcoat at all. And I've seen double breasted civilian greatcoats and regular civilian greatcoats, with or without the cape. I've looked at some nice civis and some had a plaid fabric liner. After doing some research and some simple thinking, Confederates wouldn't carry the greatcoats with them if they didn't have to , obviously, but it would just be something they would find along the way. But if I can find any other useful info I'll try and let you know.

[PieBoy96]

Re: Greatcoats for Confederates

After doing some research and some simple thinking, Confederates wouldn't carry the greatcoats with them if they didn't have to , obviously

Don't blanket-statement too quickly. See my above quote, particularly this part: "some clung to their overcoats to the last . . ."

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Greatcoats for Confederates

Don't blanket-statement too quickly. See my above quote, particularly this part: "some clung to their overcoats to the last . . ."

I'll echo Paul here. Some 19th C. fellows placed more value in a certain piece of kit than did others, just like with us. I know a fellow who will carry multiple blankets, no matter the event. While I carry only one, be it January or June.

to the OP, after Fredericksburg, US issue overcoats would not have been un common in many CS units and it also a versatile garment.

[sgt1863]

Re: Greatcoats for Confederates

The fabric and pattern of CS greatcoast would have been as varied as their issued uniforms in the later years. Jean, wool, 30 shades of grey or tan along with the captured coats. There really is no wrong way to go unless you have documentation as to what your particular unit where issued.

[jones56ga]

Re: Greatcoats for Confederates

One of my ancestors, Marcellus Atkinson, who served w/Co. G. Cobb's Legion writes home during the penensula campaign: "A battlefield is a terrible site to witness, men and horses all lying together. I walked over the battlefield and found a fine yankee rifle, overcoat, and a first California Regt. knapsack."

Just one first-hand account...

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Greatcoats for Confederates

This Confederate casualty is wearing a caped overcoat. If it's a Federal overcoat then it was made without the fold-up cuffs. http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...emp/~pp_EDA4::

Another from Petersburg. http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...emp/~pp_BVpT::

I know these are later than what you're looking for but still examples of overcoats in the field, so to speak. There is another battlefield photo that shows a casualty wearing a Federal overcoat (as well as Federal blouses, knit shirts, and other interesting things).

And although I haven't been able to locate the actual quote, my research into Berdan's Sharpshooters turned up an interesting piece of information about Confederates circa November 1863. One of the sharpshooters noted in a letter home that the North Carolinians they captured after storming the works at Kelly's Ford were better dressed than they were. The rebel overcoats were described as "dark blue," "heavier," and "better made" than the Federal variety. I have always suspected that they might be either English-made overcoats or perhaps domestically produced overcoats made using English cloth but I have no proof of this outside of a single comment.

[Motown]

Re: Greatcoats for Confederates

Johnny Green of the 9th Kentucky makes several instances of overcoats in his journal. During the first winter of the war, he had purchased an overcoat that he referred to as "army gray" if I remember correctly. This proved to be a burden during a river crossing as the tails of the coat kept floating up.

By December however, Green found himself without an overcoat, until the fight at Hartsville, TN on December 7th, when he captured Colonel Absalom Moore's overcoat after the fight.

Again, just one specific example, but Green's having two overcoats within one calender year may show some evidence that overcoats were not considered by some soliders as necessary for the entire year and were carried only when needed. Green makes several points of the Orphan Brigade capturing federal clothing, especially overcoats, so in atleast some instances, the provenence of Federal overcoats was, maybe not abundent, but at least avaliable.

[Guy Gane III]

Re: Greatcoats for Confederates

Anyone have the reference or quote regarding the Confederate(s) that were found on the field, at Gettysburg, that were wearing greatcoats?

I'm at work and miles away from my books!

[Guy Gane III]

Re: Greatcoats for Confederates

P.S. Civilian greatcoats are grossly UNDER-represented.

[Secesh]

Re: Greatcoats for Confederates

In "Letters to Amanda: The War-time Letters of Marion Hill-Fitzpatrick", he makes mention of his overcoat throughout the years 1861 to 1865...The interesting thing is that the overcoat he used was a civilian pattern, one which he had owned prior to hostilities and enlistment. Whenever he needed it he would have his wife send it to him, either by mail, or, most often, by a comrade returning from furlough. When the campigns would begin he would then send it back home for her to take care of until he again required it. He served in the 45th Georgia Infantry, ANV.

[bAcK88]

Re: Greatcoats for Confederates

In "Letters to Amanda: The War-time Letters of Marion Hill-Fitzpatrick", he makes mention of his overcoat throughout the years 1861 to 1865...The interesting thing is that the overcoat he used was a civilian pattern, one which he had owned prior to hostilities and enlistment. Whenever he needed it he would have his wife send it to him, either by mail, or, most often, by a comrade returning from furlough. When the campigns would begin he would then send it back home for her to take care of until he again required it. He served in the 45th Georgia Infantry, ANV.

This is getting slightly off topic, but what I always found cool with Marion's letters is that through the course of the entire War he had his wife sew and ship coats and trousers to him in Virginia. Even in late 64-65 when the Confederate infrastructure was crumbling, Amanda was still able to ship clothing to her husband in Petersburg. Just a little side note that I've also found interesting.

It's also sad that Fitzpatrick was killed during the Breakthrough on April 2, 1865 leaving behind his beloved wife and their two small children.