Hobby Motivation Question: Ed vs Immersion

[btfire]

Re: Hobby Motivation Question: Ed vs Immersion

Experiencing the life of a soldier at its most accurate way possible while tramping around in the woods where nobody can see lends background and understanding to a public history display. Attending events where the public always will be lends oneself to being accurate wallpaper while the flashy dressed inaccurate person gets the press. Look at most spectator driven events and then find the pictures people post on their websites and you will see what I mean. Accurate portrayals of history seldom make the press/personal blogs...

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Hobby Motivation Question: Ed vs Immersion

Hallo!

This is reading like a thinly veiled put-down of the Authentic Campaigner Community, and seemingly at first blush disguised Militant Farbism or Militant Mainstreamism where the raison d'etre of the hobby and all Mental Pictures is to "educate the spectating public."

And seems to imply that those who do not attend events educating the public are killing the "memory of our ancestors."

Within varying Mental Pictures, there are those who research deeper, document farther, and explore greater the life, times, sacrifice, suffering, story, and history of theirs and others' CW ancestors- where the "public they educate" are not always a crowd of spectators or tourists but rather their pards while they are "playing war."
(Or the audience at Living Historiess, Site Interpretations, and Talks/Presentations.)

Curt

[Hank Trent]

Re: Hobby Motivation Question: Ed vs Immersion

But if all you do is go out in woods and play war...and nobody sees the history you are potraying...then the memory of our ancestors will not live on.

Other reenactors aren't "nobody."

Let's say a spectator attends an event, is fascinated by what he sees, and becomes so interested that he decides to get period clothes, learn period skills, and wants more of the period experience that he sees... Does he go from being somebody who's worth sharing history with, to "nobody" who doesn't matter anymore?

Seems to me that's backwards. People who are the most interested should be offered the most, because they'll appreciate it the most.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[GWagner]

Re: Hobby Motivation Question: Ed vs Immersion

Brian,

I couldn't have said it better myself...

"Attending events where the public always will be lends oneself to being accurate wallpaper while the flashy dressed inaccurate person gets the press. Look at most spectator driven events and then find the pictures people post on their websites and you will see what I mean. Accurate portrayals of history seldom make the press/personal blogs... "

The public mostly only sees the cheetah britched farb, because most authentics stay away from mainstream events like leper colonies. Which is exactly why I wish more "hardcore/EBUFU" events had spectator areas...like many in the past...IM600's, Pickets Mills, Westville, Fort Gaines, etc. I was glad to see many progressives at Nash Farm in September...I suspect because LionHeart was there (and we all know how we love to get on camera.)

Imagine an event like Bummers, with areas where spectators could view the proceedings. Man, that is like being in a well cast movie for the folks watching. Those who chose could interact. I think it would be epic. Not an immersion event to be sure...all I'm saying is that the immersion experience was great for me in the 90's, but having done it, and got the t-shirt...I prefer to educate others over myself. Not that I will never do another. I just prefer the former.

I do also agree that those who don't know what it feels like need to be lost and hungry at Bummers or Recon on the Rappahanock so their portrayal in public will be better.

In reading Carlton McCarthy's book I found myself chuckling because so much of what he described sounded like 400 Marines humping from Fort Bragg to Camp Lejeune. I think you need to feel the hardships, even if for a few hours like at Bummers to understand what these men went through.

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: Hobby Motivation Question: Ed vs Immersion

I had 10 years of real soldier life tramping around with hardships. I'll leave that to the guys who need that experience to understand how it feels when they read it in books.

Well if that is the standard for 'Campaigner', I don't ever have to sleep out in the woods again, fry bacon on a fire or even get wet. I can go get myself an RV and roll out to Backwater in a few weeks and set up a nice display.

I wonder how the organizers would feel about that?

Actually I know how they would feel and I feel the same. Modern Military Veterans have served their country and should be honored for that, but it doesn't 'absolve' one from doing anything at an event if you want to participate or be respected in the campaigner community.

That's my two cents on that and my apologies for following this off topic...

[PetePaolillo]

Re: Hobby Motivation Question: Ed vs Immersion

Let me rephrase my post...since Jim didn't like my gif file.

I have been reading this thread with much interest.

My take, you can have a button pissed, handsewn, correct pattern, riveted or not, defarbed whatever...and that is wonderful. But if all you do is go out in woods and play war...and nobody sees the history you are potraying...then the memory of our ancestors will not live on. In the end, this hobby started shortly after the war with our ancestors "role playing" battles at reunions so people would not forget them.

So, I would be more apt to attend an event where the public...scouts or not...are there to learn.

I had 10 years of real soldier life tramping around with hardships. I'll leave that to the guys who need that experience to understand how it feels when they read it in books.

Galen,

Educating the public by what we do at events is a positive byproduct of our hobby. Doing small living histories for the public is a great time to teach. I am all for helping anyone learn more along the way. I am willing to take on a new person with a strong desire for the history heavy and helping them or pointing them to more knowledgeble people then myself.....but, with that said..Let me be plainly honest with you.. Speaking for me only.

I did not get into this hobby soley to teach or educate the public about the Civil War or the common everyday soldier. I could care less if anyone sees me out in the woods doing what soldiers do. I have spent my hard earned money, time, research and education to build and grow a impression for any event I go to. It might be considered selfish but then again it is my hobby after all.

I know that what I do preserves the memory of my ancestors. I choose to go to events that are historically researched and are not some sort of mish mosh carnival, civil war circus.

I also know that the events we go to create an atmosphere of learning and appreciation among all in our unit or individual mess. We build fire together, put up shelter together, share and cook meager rations. We rely on each other to stay warm and dry etc. etc. We all work together for a common goal. It is called Brotherhood and Teamwork. It is the epitome of what a Soldier of any time period knows.

We don't dress up in our Handsewn shirts and "Pissed on buttons" and parade around the funnel cake stand to show off how cool we are....That is not what the Authentic Campaigner mindset is or should be. It seems you are condemning the AC community and justifying your attendance at bad events. Not sure what your motivation is but it should not be welcomed here.

[Old Reb]

Re: Hobby Motivation Question: Ed vs Immersion

This thread has "jumped the shark!" If I am wrong, then no one will object to me calling for a campaign event in adjunct with the Louisiana Youth Challenge folks. For those of you not familiar with LYC, they are teen age, non violent offenders who were given a choice between real prison and a boot camp. Having experienced a Living History at the Mansfield Battle Field Park where we were visited by 200 of these fine representatives of American youth, I think doing a full campaign, EUFBU event with them would be outstanding. Even better than a tractor pull with a civil war battle combined. However, I must warn anyone contemplating such an endeavor, the young males are very interesting in the GUNS, and the young females want to know about tattoos and body piercing. As, I said, I would have not added such an off topic, irreverent post had I not surmised that while this thread started with good intentions, has certainly JUMPED THE SHARK, and hopefully will die and quick death.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Hobby Motivation Question: Ed vs Immersion

Before too many accusations get flung arounds (gentle moderatorial nudge)...

This is the A-C, there's no need for that here. Remember the "Big Three" rules here:
1) Sign you real name to every post.
2) No Farbisms.
3) Be nice.

The internet and discussion fora are not perfect media. What you read is tainted by your perspective. Keep that in mind when you read another person's post. The thing that is ticking you off might not be what the writer intended.

This thread is not an "Us" vs "Them" discussion. It is not a discussion about whether folks should be motivated "only" by education or "only" by immersion. NOBODY is motivated purely by one or the other. If you didn't want to know just a li'l about what it might have been like to be a Civil War Sojer, then you'd never have bought a musket and dressed in the funny clothes. All of us have our skills and weaknesses and the things we prefer doing in the hobby.

I'm going to go watch some reruns of Happy Days, before Fonzy jumped the shark and pray that I don't have to put this thread down. It had a good run, contributed some fine discussion, and doesn't deserve such an ignominious end.

[GWagner]

I edited my original post, but wanted to reply so everyone would see it.

I wanted to apologize if my comments offended anyone. That was certainly not the intention. If I offended you I am truly sorry.

I did not intend to de-mean or trivilaize immersion events, or the folks on this board and what they do for historical education in this arena, at all. I have done many "EBUFU" events in my 20 years. I count many on this board as friends. To know that I errantly offended anyone bothers me a good deal.

Again, I apologize.

[toptimlrd]

Re: Hobby Motivation Question: Ed vs Immersion

First of all, where do I sign up???

Now on to logistics, I agree venture Scouts would make the best candidates due to the age and maturity factor. haaving said that bear in mind that many if not most Venture Crews are co-ed so a civilian presence for the ladies may be in order for the full effect so the young ladies can get a taste of authentic events where they can participate. I have held numerous positions within Scouting and am currently a Venture Crew advisor for a high adventure (Scuba, Trekking, Rapelling, etc) crew that is all but dead due to the Scouts aging out and others heading off to college. The wife and I have bounced around the idea of re-starting it as a living history unit with an emphasis on authenticity. We have a local crew which also uses living history as a basis of their Crew but they take a more mainstream approach which is not necessarily a bad thing as many of these kids may jump the fence at some point and I already see a bit of a glimmer in a few of their eyes. The only reason we have not started the authentic minded unit is due to the "sticker shock" these kids and their families would see when they looked at gear and the issue of finding enough young men and ladies interested enough to have a sufficient number of scouts. I know it's probably about the same as their modern gear BUT they have already accumulated a plethora of modern gear over their scouting careers (even the ladies are usually Girl Scouts who have earned their Gold award) but I digress. In addition we as hosts would have to bear in mind the Boy Scout rules and regulations which may affect the event to a degree. For example the Boy Scouts would not support many of our practices due to the "Leave no Trace" policies (easily overcome), there could be no alchohol or tobacco use, etc.

[J.Whitley]

Re: Hobby Motivation Question: Ed vs Immersion

I'd be in this thing feet first.