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Schuylkill Arsenal Linings

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  • Schuylkill Arsenal Linings

    Hello All,

    There is currently a thread (http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...ad.php?t=26889) on fabric sources for Schuylkill Arsenal jackets, but something came up in the discussion that is in a different direction so instead of hyjacking that thread I thought I'd start a new one.

    Curt Schmidt wrote: "Schyulkill Arsenal, was not very strict either, and during period of fabric shortages ...were known for "outrageous" lining materials."

    I've seen several reproductions that have wild lining materials either in the body or the sleeves, but I guess my questions are:

    -of the surviving examples of SA Infantry Jackets, how many exhibit this wild fabric usage?

    -was the use of crazy fabric only used in periods of "normal" body/sleeve lining fabric shortages?

    Anything on body/sleeve linings would be helpful, but I am especially interested in the SA Infantry Jacket
    Last edited by NYCivilWar; 02-09-2010, 01:15 PM.
    Respectfully,
    -Kyle M. Stetz
    Liberty Rifles

    "I think the prospect for an active and laborious campaign in Virginia is pretty clear and we will again this spring renew our old occupation and struggle between life and death for six more weary months." Capt. Samuel S. Brooke 47th Va. Infantry-- March 27, 1864

  • #2
    Re: Schuylkill Arsenal Linings

    Kyle,

    Here are some shots of three existing SA produced jackets, the first being an infantry jacket, the second an artillery jacket, and the third an artillery musician's jacket.

    As you will note all have patterned/colored linings.

    It is asserted by County Cloth that the infantry jacket in the Gettysburg collection is lined with domet flannel, but I have never had the chance to examine this up close to either confirm or deny this.

    It is my experience that colored/patterned linings in SA produced garments were the rule rather than the exception, as off the top of my head I cannot recall ever having seen an SA produced jacket with a plain woolen lining, (though there is an SA blouse in the Smithsonian with a relatively plain jean cloth lining.)

    The theory with which I operate when it comes to SA linings is that the arsenal was simply purchasing any woolen material it could get cheaply on the local Philadelphia market, which often meant some pretty wild stuff.

    Hope this helps.
    Attached Files
    Dan Wambaugh
    Wambaugh, White, & Company
    www.wwandcompany.com
    517-303-3609
    Become our fan on Facebook by clicking HERE

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Schuylkill Arsenal Linings

      I have only handled one S.A. infantry jacket, the Sgt. George Snell (121st NY) jacket owned by artist/historian Don Troiani. This garment has a relatively subdued plaid/bold stripe pattern wool/cotton lining in the body but I did not have time to check the sleeves. While discussing the wild linings in Don's original S.A. garments, he mentioned that some feel that S.A. may have purchased the unique linings on purpose.

      I understand that you are looking for information on S.A. infantry jacket linings but you should definitely look at other S.A. produced garments as well. The variation in colors is stunning but the cloth itself is almost always a wool/cotton akin to domet flannel. Attached are several interior shots of original S.A. garments. Like the original S.A. infantry jacket housed at Gettysburg, the V.R.C. jacket here is lined with domet flannel. The faintly striped sleeve lining in the artillery jacket appears to be linen.
      Brian White
      [URL="http://wwandcompany.com"]Wambaugh, White, & Co.[/URL]
      [URL="https://www.facebook.com/pages/Wambaugh-White-Company/114587141930517"]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Wambaugh-White-Company/114587141930517[/URL]
      [email]brian@wwandcompany.com[/email]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Schuylkill Arsenal Linings

        Dan,

        Thanks for the picture of the Snell jacket interior. The second photograph is the inside of a zouave jacket; remember that a lot of them seem to have had that cadet gray broadcloth facing in the front of the coat itself or false vest.

        There was also one S.A. cavalry jacket for sale at the Ohio Civil War show in 2008 that was lined from at least three different runs of domet flannel varying in color from yellow-tan to bright white, and varying in quality and coarseness.
        Brian White
        [URL="http://wwandcompany.com"]Wambaugh, White, & Co.[/URL]
        [URL="https://www.facebook.com/pages/Wambaugh-White-Company/114587141930517"]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Wambaugh-White-Company/114587141930517[/URL]
        [email]brian@wwandcompany.com[/email]

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Schuylkill Arsenal Linings

          Hallo!

          An unrelated aside...

          My wife's g-g-uncle was Theodore Blakeley, Captain of Company "B," of the 58th PA Infantry (killed at Fort Harrison after picking up the colors from the third color bearer to go down).
          He owned a textile mill in Philadelphia a few blocks from SA (the standing ruins of which still stand in an "unsafe neighborhood'). Aside from weaving fabric, he also operated a "scrap cloth" business.
          The family believes that his company supplied some of the "outrageous" material to Schyulkill Arsenal.

          Curt
          Curt Schmidt
          In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

          -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
          -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
          -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
          -Vastly Ignorant
          -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Schuylkill Arsenal Linings

            Originally posted by Dan Wambaugh View Post
            It is asserted by County Cloth that the infantry jacket in the Gettysburg collection is lined with domet flannel, but I have never had the chance to examine this up close to either confirm or deny this.
            Hope this helps.
            The Gettysburg jacket does indeed have a lining of domet flannel with a one piece back similar to the VRC jacket posted in this thread. Bill Lomas of EJT also has a SA artillery jacket in his collection lined with domet flannel and a one piece back as well.

            Regards,
            -Seth Harr

            Liberty Rifles
            93rd New York Coffee Cooler
            [I]
            "One of the questions that troubled me was whether I would ever be able to eat hardtack again. I knew the chances were against me. If I could not I was just as good as out of the service"[/I]
            [B]-Robert S. Camberlain, 64th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry[/B]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Schuylkill Arsenal Linings

              Dan, Brian, Curt, and Seth,

              Thanks for the great info and photos, that's exactly what I was looking for. The reason I was specifically wondering about the SA Infantry jacket is that I would like to make one, but agree that looking at a range of SA-produced garments will be helpful.

              Thanks again!
              Respectfully,
              -Kyle M. Stetz
              Liberty Rifles

              "I think the prospect for an active and laborious campaign in Virginia is pretty clear and we will again this spring renew our old occupation and struggle between life and death for six more weary months." Capt. Samuel S. Brooke 47th Va. Infantry-- March 27, 1864

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Schuylkill Arsenal Linings

                Attached is a photo of the lining on a SA produced Artillery Shell in the Gettysburg collection. The numbers in the lining are not original to the jacket but part of some previous catalog system. The 40 is the size.
                Attached Files
                [FONT="Georgia"][COLOR="Black"][SIZE="3"]Cody J Harding[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

                [FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="2"][B]Liberty Rifles[/B][/SIZE][/FONT]


                [URL="http://libertyrifles.org/"]http://www.libertyrifles.org/[/URL]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Schuylkill Arsenal Linings

                  Attached are two photos I snapped of the lining in Bill's SA artillery coat as well as the stamp.

                  Regards,
                  Attached Files
                  -Seth Harr

                  Liberty Rifles
                  93rd New York Coffee Cooler
                  [I]
                  "One of the questions that troubled me was whether I would ever be able to eat hardtack again. I knew the chances were against me. If I could not I was just as good as out of the service"[/I]
                  [B]-Robert S. Camberlain, 64th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry[/B]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Schuylkill Arsenal Linings

                    As I recall, the Daniel Byam jacket in GNMP is, as others have stated, lined with domet flannel but appears to have a plain-weave cotton lining the breast pocket and sleeves. Also, worth noting, it is devoid of any arsenal markings though it does have sizing dots.

                    Also attached is a photo of the sleeve lining of my personally owned SA artillery jacket. Similar configuration to Mr. Lomas', lined in domet but with a plain-weave cotton in the sleeves. The image enlarges the texture of the fabric; it's a lot thinner and softer than it reads.
                    Attached Files
                    Marc A. Hermann
                    Liberty Rifles.
                    MOLLUS, New York Commandery.
                    Oliver Tilden Camp No 26, SUVCW.


                    In honor of Sgt. William H. Forrest, Co. K, 114th PA Vol. Infantry. Pvt. Emanuel Hermann, 45th PA Militia. Lt. George W. Hopkins & Capt. William K. Hopkins, Co. E, 7th PA Reserves. Pvt. Joseph A. Weckerly, 72nd PA Vol. Infantry (WIA June 29, 1862, d. March 23, 1866.) Pvt. Thomas Will, 21st PA Vol. Cavalry (WIA June 18, 1864, d. July 31, 1864.)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Schuylkill Arsenal Linings

                      Originally posted by FranklinGuardsNYSM View Post
                      Also attached is a photo of the sleeve lining of my personally owned SA artillery jacket. Similar configuration to Mr. Lomas', lined in domet but with a plain-weave cotton in the sleeves. The image enlarges the texture of the fabric; it's a lot thinner and softer than it reads.
                      Just wondering is the back lining piece on your jacket one or two pieces? Bill's jacket sleeves and pocket are also very thin plain weave cotton, very similar to the modern muslin you can get at Joann's.

                      Regards,
                      -Seth Harr

                      Liberty Rifles
                      93rd New York Coffee Cooler
                      [I]
                      "One of the questions that troubled me was whether I would ever be able to eat hardtack again. I knew the chances were against me. If I could not I was just as good as out of the service"[/I]
                      [B]-Robert S. Camberlain, 64th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry[/B]

                      Comment

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