Ammunition Chest Measurements

[aa2639]

Gents, I needs your assistance,

For some time now i have been searching for the measurements for a .58 caliber ammunition box for the 1861 Springfield or 1853 Enfield, with no luck. Now I'm sure that this has been discussed on the forum before, but again i have not been unable to find it.

I have also been looking through the ordnance manual 61', and have only found the cartridges for small arms chart on page 270. That chart does have measurements for .58 caliber ammo chests, but not the 61' Springfield or 53' Enfield. Would the depot's use the measurements for the other .58 caliber?

The unit I portray is the 3rd Conf. Regt. Ark. with the AoT. and I am just trying to build some ammo chests for the company. Any assistance, advise or knowledge would be appreciated. Thanks

Andrew Atkins
3rd Conf. Regt.
CWRS

[estephenson]

Re: Ammunition Chest Measurements

Andrew, I would highly recommend you get the book in this thread. It has everything you would need to make an ammunition box.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24022

[aa2639]

Re: Ammunition Chest Measurements

Ok, thanks. I'll go find the book now!

[PetePaolillo]

Re: Ammunition Chest Measurements

I will second what Eric said. AJ did a great job with this book. I never had much expierence working with wood, but I was able to make a quality replica of a Hardtack crate according to the original specs. Don' be intimidated. The book is well done . Most if not all of the projects in it, a novice can do with just a little time and patience and basic tools.

[Army30th]

Re: Ammunition Chest Measurements

I too, think that AJ's book is awesome. I have made several boxes over the years prior to his book being printed and here's what I have found:

This article takes source material from the regulations and creates a reasonable facsimile of an ammunition box:

http://nw15tharkansas.org/uploads/Articles/Ammo%20Box%20Article.pdf

The article goes on to further state how you can use boxes for storage of stuff. BUT this is not acceptable practice on campaign to carry around an ammunition box.



The Ordnance Manual for the use of Officers of the United States Army Third edition (1862) lists the following:

Musket of 1842, expanding ball: 14 x 12 x 7 lead colored box

Musket and Rifle 1855, expanding ball: 14.75 x 10.75 x 6.38 olive colored box

Musket of 1842, round ball: 15.5 x 11.75 x 6.75 blue colored box

Musket of 1842, round ball buckshot: 15 x 10.75 x 6.38 red colored box

(These are all interior dimensions)


The Ordnance Manual for the Use of Officers of the Confederate States Army First Edition (1863) by Col. J. Gorgas , was published by both West & Johnston of Richmond and Evans & Cogswell of Charleston. However it was predated by an ordnance manual abridged by Col. William LeRoy Broun, from the ordnance manual in use by the United States Army, as related in a memorial address, printed in the US Department of Agriculture: Office Of Experiment Stations Bulletin 137, December 1903.

One could infer or assume from this material, that the manuals in use by the armies were either identical at the outbreak of hostilities or were very close in nature. So I would gather that a box made to Federal Army sizes would not be all that unusual in the Confederate Army, in the early stages of the war. However, later war could be different as shown by this picture:



This is an original Richmond Arsenal ammunition box. I have made two of these in my 20 years of reenacting. They are taller than regular US ammo boxes.

[aa2639]

Re: Ammunition Chest Measurements

William,
Thank you for the information. This article looks like it will be a great help and I was unaware that the dimensions of the other boxes were interior. Also i have bought Civil War Woodworking, not only does it look great, but it looks as if it will have my next project in it as well.

Thank you everyone for your help, it was wonderful support!

[ajhamler]

Re: Ammunition Chest Measurements

Hi everybody...

First -- Andrew, Eric, Pete and William, thanks for getting my book! I hope you all enjoy it. As you work through the projects, let me know what you think. (You can PM me here, or use the e-mail address in the book.) By the way, if any of you guys got the book on Amazon, I'd consider it a favor if you'd post a brief positive review there. Thanks in advance.

And, yes, the specs in the US and CS ordnance manuals -- I have copies of both -- were identical, including the colors boxes should be painted as noted in William's post. Which debunks a common reenactor (and sutler) myth that all Union boxes were painted and all Reb boxes were all unpainted.

Andrew, you've got me curious -- what's the next project you're going to do from the book?

Finally, for anyone else interested, I'm attaching an exploded drawing of the ammo box from the book. This particular drawing shows square dovetails, commonly called box joints, but in the book I describe other methods of corner joinery that were used.

A.J.

[aa2639]

Re: Ammunition Chest Measurements

AJ,
Although i havn't read the book yet as it is still in the mail, i was able to see what chapters were inside. My next project from your book will be the hardtack crate. I am the quarter master for the company i re-enact with, and as we do have a rifle box to keep all the loaner gear in, not all of it fits. The rest of the loaner gear sits in a large rubbermade contianer that I hate trying to hide. A Hardtack crate looks just the right size!

[Craig Wolfe]

Re: Ammunition Chest Measurements

Hello All,

I am in the middle of building an Arsenal box, with regular dovetail corners, for .577 / 58 caliber. I am wondering if anyone with access to an original box can tell me if there were any additional fasteners used on the dovetailed versions. I am familiar with butt joints and box joints, but have not seen an original with dove tail joints. Were they held together by the joint alone. or were the corners nailed, like the box joints were? If fasteners were used, any input on the type and placement would be appreciated.

Best regards,
Craig Wolfe

[gsusat]

Re: Ammunition Chest Measurements

Craig

I have access to an original Ammo Box. It has dovetail corners and there are nails at each dovetail. I have uploaded some pictures of the ends. Also I did a drawing of the box and uploaded a PDF of that as well. The lumber to make the box was 7/8" thick. So it is just a little thicker than the 1x stock avaliable today. The bottom looks to have been made with one piece that has split over time. This box is a Watertown Arsenal Box.

Hope this helps

George Susat

[gsusat]

Re: Ammunition Chest Measurements

I just wanted to add a couple more pictures and a bit more of a description. This box has two nails on in the dovetails - there may be one under the handle. The nails are on the end of the box - the other side of the dovetail have no nails. And the nails are hard to see since the paint covers them as well. On the bottom there are three nails on each side for a total of 12 nails.

These boxes full weighed just short of 100 pounds and were moved many times and needed to be quite stout.

Hope this helps

George

[GBOB]

Re: Ammunition Chest Measurements

I cant agree enough with the recommendation of AJ's book. Not only is it well researched, but the instructions were simple enough for even a neophyte such as me to follow.

[Bill]

Re: Ammunition Chest Measurements

This is an original Richmond Arsenal ammunition box. I have made two of these in my 20 years of reenacting. They are taller than regular US ammo boxes.

William Lee,

Do you happen to have the exact inside dimensions of the Richmond Arsenal ammo box?

[Army30th]

Re: Ammunition Chest Measurements

The box I made was 9.75 high by 15 long by 10.25 wide, but those are the outside dimensions. I used modern lumber sizes, so the interior was 3/4 inch smaller in width and length. In the picture I posted it appears that the bottom of the box is INSIDE (in between) the side panels. I built mine so the sides rested on top of the bottom panel.