Schuilkill Arsenal Fatigue Jackets in 1861 ?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Schuilkill Arsenal Fatigue Jackets in 1861 ?

Hallo!

IMHO, we should be blaming Todd here. ;) :)

Plus granting bonus points for things not lost in the translation from our German kameraden. Waffenrock oder Bluse... ;)

I have never encountered much of anything much ever written on the SA infantry jacket, and what little there is seems to be from an era where we were lumping all manner of "state jackets" (ex: NY, PA, OH, IL, etc.) together and with the SA jacket.

In brief and to over-generalize, I have never come across or seen research or documentation as to the how and the why of War time issuance of what is essentially the mounted services jacket minus its branch color braid/tape. Or the examples seen in Period photographs with modified or cut down collars. Or officers wearing them implying private purchase.

Curt

[Charles Kaiser]

Re: Schuilkill Arsenal Fatigue Jackets in 1861 ?

There exist following "Jackets"Hallo Kameraden,
Also..
after a little rumble and confusion in my brain:
The State Jacket: NY, OH, Mo and so on in different shapes, with piping, without it, with or without bletloops an shoulder straps.
The Shell Jacket, with piping in weapon colour, but not earlier than 1862.
Shortenend Frockcoats, altered by cuting away the skirt. ( Shortenend in the field, I think, not regular by Arsenal. PICTURES ?)
Schuyilkill Arsenal Jacket, like that : http://pallasandcompany.com/album2_013.htm OK, ist a Reproduction, but my resources are limited on this side of the pond.
Private Purchased ?
Militia Shell Jackets ?

To make the confusion complet, at which time frame will this garments appear and disapear ? :confused_

I hope, one Day the cave, where the SA Pattern for Frocks and shells are hidden, will be found ! (Togethet with all the other mystery Garment) :wink_smil

Ok, back to seriously, is there someone, who can add something or correct it ?

My Main interest is the shortenend Frock or the Plain SA Shell Jacket

[Ian M.]

Re: Schuilkill Arsenal Fatigue Jackets in 1861 ?

Don't for a moment consider me an expert on the topic, but I am particularly interested in all manner of Federal jackets. The SA jacket (w- 11 small button front and buttoned cuffs) seems based on my little research to be a late war item, whereas the various western state jackets (I'm not talking NYS here) seem to be early-mid war. The 9-button shell jacket -- with or without functioning, buttoned cuffs, but without shoulder straps seems to be late-1863 to early 1864 issue. The so-called signal corps jacket (which seems to me to be an SA Jacket or very similar) is something I only know about through EoG Federal Edition.

Like I say, nit an expert but definitely interested in Federal shell jackets. Anyone with better info (and make sure to counter any of my points if you have a good source as the last thing I wish to do is detract from the knowledge on this topic).

This assessment is partially based on the Lazy Jacks article (the only comprehensive source I've found, is there anything more current?)

[prestontoprail]

Re: Schuilkill Arsenal Fatigue Jackets in 1861 ?

As another side note: I noticed that a good deal of federals which have had their photos taken after their service seem to be decked out in custom tailored clothing of federal "design" and cloth. A majority of the jackets are sack coats of civilian cut with blue cloth (probably much finer than the standard fatigue blouse flannel) and plain shell jackets. If you have the book "Echoes of Battle :The Atlanta Campaign" handy, look through the photos of the guys which were taken in late '64/'65 right after they mustered out and you'll see what I'm talking about. It seems alot of fellas sprang for a uniform of tailor fit and nice cloth as their "walking out" uniform so to speak. You'll see plenty of shell jackets which appear to be of the "SA infantry jacket" variety, but could also be the job of a civilian/military tailor. I've often seen private purchase trousers in these photos as well which also seem to be of a material a step above the kersey that the military was spitting out. So beware when examining photos of the date the photograph was made in comparison to their term of service, the clothes they are wearing in those plates are not what the soldier was wearing while enlisted or on campaign.

[prestontoprail]

Re: Schuilkill Arsenal Fatigue Jackets in 1861 ?

Here's an interesting notice in case some haven't spotted it yet. Most living historians assume that the early war state jackets, or any shell jacket with epaulettes id'd to a western soldier were not seen past 1863 due to the odds of the jacket wearing out or were thrown out/replaced. I know we're all familiar with the photo of the 9th Indiana in garrison quarters taken in 1864, the image has been published in practically every other Civil War photo book. Upon examining it closely I noticed not one, but two shell jackets in the ranks with epaulettes on the shoulders.



In the rear rank, third from left.



And the fella on the far right.



So I suppose these would be examples of the Indiana state jacket with epaulettes and either these guys wore these shell jackets all through their service (unlikely but possible) or they had them stored away with the unit or at home to be worn for winter camp/garrison. Perhaps for unit pride? I'm not sure at all but at least there is a good example of these state jackets sticking around a little longer than most of us thought.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Schuilkill Arsenal Fatigue Jackets in 1861 ?

As another side note: I noticed that a good deal of federals which have had their photos taken after their service seem to be decked out in custom tailored clothing of federal "design" and cloth. A majority of the jackets are sack coats of civilian cut with blue cloth (probably much finer than the standard fatigue blouse flannel) and plain shell jackets. If you have the book "Echoes of Battle :The Atlanta Campaign" handy, look through the photos of the guys which were taken in late '64/'65 right after they mustered out and you'll see what I'm talking about. It seems alot of fellas sprang for a uniform of tailor fit and nice cloth as their "walking out" uniform so to speak. You'll see plenty of shell jackets which appear to be of the "SA infantry jacket" variety, but could also be the job of a civilian/military tailor. I've often seen private purchase trousers in these photos as well which also seem to be of a material a step above the kersey that the military was spitting out. So beware when examining photos of the date the photograph was made in comparison to their term of service, the clothes they are wearing in those plates are not what the soldier was wearing while enlisted or on campaign.

I've noticed the same phenomenon in CDVs later in the war -- lots of men in what looks like a spiffy "walking out" uniform. I think some of this may have to do with the bounties available during this period. The 140,000 "veteran volunteers" who reenlisted in late '63 to '64 (OR Series III, Vol. V, p. 1014), as well as perhaps 300,000 responding to the calls for new troops in October 17, 1863 and February 1, 1864 (Livermore's "Numbers & Losses" p. 50) would all have benefitted from the $400 Federal bounty, in addition to many state and local bounties. The northern economy had turned inflationary in the "age of shoddy" and the tendency would have been to spend some of this money. So even though government issued clothing was decent and less expensive, it doesn't surprise me to see troops getting gussied up, probably with the productions of private tailors.

I don't know where this leaves us with the Schuykill jacket. I find it interesting that the only infantry jackets that show up in the General Orders on uniform clothing prices are the VRC's and, in GO 28 of March 22, 1862, the New York state jacket. Some depots report "infantry" and "knit" jackets on hand in 1865, meaning some depots are getting them, but not in great numbers. The basic style of the army's jackets has a long history before the war, so many sources seem possible.