Locks and Sharps receivers

[Sut Lovingood]

If this post should be asked in sinks, please move rather than delete.

In my desire to acquire particular arms which will span my late 1850s AZ Dragoon and far west Civil War impressions I am looking at building 3 types of weapons. My want is to not use Italian parts if possible and build authentic looking weapons.
So regarding lockplates for the 1841, 1847 cavalry model, and 1853 Sharps receivers, I have Lodgewood, S&S, The Rifle Shoppe to look at (unless I am missing another). My questions are the following.
Do these parts come stamped, dated, etc? If so, are the stamps accurate and authentic in appearance? Are there any warnings, pitfalls, advice on these builds anyone can offer? I do know about the final finishing of some parts, etc., though the locks can be bought assembled.
The initial build from the list will be the 1841, so I am most curious about that. Barrel makers, for original 54 cal., would be appreciated. Whiteacre's? If not already browned, who can do such a job? Dunlap stocks are the only source I have experience with when building military weapons...any other recomendations?
I hope to hear sage advice from the usual suspects.:wink_smil
Thanks in advance.

[Blair]

Re: Locks and Sharps receivers

Rae,

Dan Whitacre makes a fine barrel and has a good turn around time.
He marks his barrels with a V P/Eagle head. He also stamps his barrels with a "very small" Minnie ball with a "W" in it. He tries to place this so it will not be see on the finished firearm. I would not recommend this be removed.
The question is, Do you need a custom targrt grade shooting barrel?
Original barrels should be stamps "Steel" on the breech as well with the corresponding date stamped on the breech plug tang that matches the lock date.
No other marks are common or standard on the barrels. By that, I mean there maybe small letters and/or numbers stamped in various places (usually on the underside or breech end of the barrel). These are acceptance marks of various inspections of the barrels manufacture process. These marks vary with the individual Inspector.

I can better address your other questions through e-mails. They are not limited to time and space.
I hope you find this helpful,

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Locks and Sharps receivers

Rae,

Another approach I can suggest is you look into Garrett Arms reproductions of the 1841 and Sharps. I'm an uncertainly whether they made the early slant breech model Sharps, probably not, but I have one each of their '59 rifle and '63 carbine and they are so far ahead of the Italian reproductions that I would consider them just a step below the originals (except they'll look only thirty years old instead of one hundred and fifty.) They did make excellent M1841s and there are only a few minor points that would need improvement to turn them into a carbon copy of an original.

That said, I definitely don't want to condone modification to the Garrett Arms reproductions. They are rare as hens teeth and only available second, third, or fourth hand these days. Nevertheless, I did want to mention this approach as it won't have to involve a custom built firearm. Feel free to contact me through email or PM if you have any other questions.


Best,

[Blair]

Re: Locks and Sharps receivers

Rae,

I would agree with Dan's suggestions.
However, if you start your 1841 build using a repro, I would suggest looking for one of the Zoli made '41 Mississippi Rifles.
Some of the early Italian made '41's were made by Bernidelli and may have soldered bolsters, which have been know to blow off when shooting live Minnie ball type bullets. These were improved by welding the bolster in place and will be stamped with a "W".
Starting your "build" with a custom made target grade barrel, could start out costing you $400.00 for just the barrel.
Starting with a used repro '41, may give you basically everything you need for the "build" at about or slightly more cost. Even if the barrel is shot out, a sleeve or reline is about $250.00. This is why I asked you about your need for a custom grade target shooting barrel. If all you want it for is blowing smoke, why spend the extra money?
These Arms are "generically" refereed to as Harpers Ferry Rifles in the historical records. None were manufactured by Springfield!

The "slant" breech (1852, 1853 or 1855) Sharps is another issue.
If you can find an original that is in need of restoration, and is in good enough condition to warrant a restoration, It is best left alone. Just my opinion.
What the Rifle Shoppe offers will require a great deal of machine tooling experience and hand fitting skills.
The "straight" breech Sharps of the 1859 type is a much better choice, and a doable "build' using several on the "newer" reproductions.

The 1847 series of Musketoon are all built/made around the M-1841 size locks. Not made around the Carbine/Musketoon length M-1842 Musket! All are made at Springfield only! Harpers Ferry may rifle and sight some of these in the last half of the 1850's, but do not manufacture them.
I hope this helps,

[M.Latham]

Re: Locks and Sharps receivers

Rae,

First thing, do you have access to a lathe, drill press and an assortment of files and other hand tools? If so, great, you have all the basic tools needed.

You hint in your post that you have some experiance building from dunlap stocks, IMHO that is the best place to start.

The lock can be either one of the Rifle Shoppes or (if you can find one) a lock made by Rich Cross. Both are excellent staring points, with both having excellent stampings and eagles.

However the Rifle Shoppes castings will require all the tools mentioned above to drill and tap screws and the ability to heat treat springs. If you buy it assembled from the Rifle Shoppe it will save time, but you will wait for delivery of the lock.

As for the barrel I would recommend Bobby Hoyt, IMHO over Whitacre. Both make a good barrel, but I prefer Hoyt.

[Sut Lovingood]

Re: Locks and Sharps receivers

Blair,
Thank you for the information regarding the stamps. Exactly the type of information I was wanting. I do not mind the W stamp in a non visible location. I am familiar with the stamps on my 1847 which is 1848 dated. I will most likely take you up on the email offer for further discussion on my build. Thanks again.

Dan,
Garrett...yes, hard to find. I had a 59 and still know the guy whom I sold it to in 1991. Trying to work that buy back. I have not come across an 1841 for sale. I want to support those few people, companies have already been mentioned, who are trying to keep parts available and made in the US. More work on my part for sure, but just a personal desire which is getting harder to accomplish. Thanks Dan, talk to you more off post.

In AZ events are not as frequent as other locations, so I usually do impressions at work and travel when I can. But being in BFE, read middle of the desert, allows much live firing in the wild. I also hunt...alot. I draw muzzle loading tags quite often. Deer, elk, to bear. So every weapon I buy I live fire with. The 1847 would be a hunting exception as it didn't hit squat in 1847 (hence Ewell's constant complaints on them when he was in 1st Dragoons) but they were prevalent here and I no longer want to take my original out for the public to paw and fondle. And being AZ, it is not uncommon for me to go to a school and let kids handle unloaded weapons of the represented era.

Mark,
I have a Rich Cross 1855 lock, fully functional tape. But I bought it in WI at Lodgewood. How would one get a hold of Mr. Cross directly? Please shoot me an email about the Hoyt over Whiteacre. Are weight, diameter, rifling, etc. more exact to period specs with one over the other.

Thanks for responding everyone. I wanted to use the forum as a sounding board before I make calls next week. You guys came through with very helpful information.

[Blair]

Re: Locks and Sharps receivers

Rae,

Hoyt and Whitacre both make excellent barrels. Both reline/sleeve and stretch barrels for restoration work.
You really can't go wrong with either of these two barrel makers. It just depends on what you want and expect for the type of shooting you do. It will be easier for you to get in touch with Dan Whitacre to get the info you may need.

Bobby Hoyt offerers a greater variety on minimum bore dia. and rates of twist. Depending on what the individual wants. Some of these rates of twist are authentic to a specific model firearm... some are not. It depends on what that person wants. He will cut 3 groove Minnie ball rifling or 5 or 7 groove patch round ball type of rifling like many of the early '41's had. Bobby makes a lot of barrels for civilian sporting and hunting rifles in their respective calibers too.

Dan Whitacre offers two basic minimum bore dia., in .58 cal. this is either .577 or .580 and one rate of twist, 1-72 which is what most three band Rifle Muskets were. This is a little slow for rifle length firearms with 3 groove rifling in the .58 cal. Minnie ball gun. Dan also offers 5 groove rifling for the .54 cal. guns like the '41's and the 1-72 rate of twist is perfect for patch round ball in the Rifle length barrels.
You may write or call,