Painted Cloth Box and cap pouch Construction Information/Sources

[MO-Pard]

I know there are several, mostly older, threads on painted cloth accoutrements and a couple obscure references to some who at one time or another made these. With BTB coming, we have a unit well known to have had these so interest is peaking..... I chose to put this thread here for the following reason:

Personally, like making clothing, I'd like and prefer to make my own. Though it isn't for everyone, we generally encourage the sharing of information and hope this is no different. So if there are folks who have done the groundwork, taking measurements, drafting a pattern, etc. who are willing to help/share information, here is a request for such. I understand, some do these for income and I think that is fine, but a very small number of people will actually attempt such and these are so specialized one wonders how many will do so or ever purchase anyway.

Secondly, while we are here, can those who CURRENTLY AND ACTIVELY are producing these list their information here. Now that Don Smith is out, there is very little to go on. I know this isn't the vendor forum, but didn't want to muddy up another thread.

[elcid01]

Re: Painted Cloth Box and cap pouch Construction Information/Sources

Brad Malone - bmalone263@yahoo.com

hit him up..

[MO-Pard]

Re: Painted Cloth Box and cap pouch Construction Information/Sources

I did. Guess I should get my registration in as well, lol.

[dirtyshirt]

Re: Painted Cloth Box and cap pouch Construction Information/Sources

I'd sure like to see some shared information about them as well. I'm thinking of making myself a set this winter. Maybe I'll just have to drive up to the WVM...

[marktaylor]

Re: Painted Cloth Box and cap pouch Construction Information/Sources

I have always had a 'thing' for painted cloth gear. Many years ago someone sent me these measurements & info on an original. I have wanted to make a box for a while but have not gotten around to it.
The pictures of the original are from the Old South Antiques website. Here is the description from the web site:
The South’s primary source of painted waterproof cloth was in Columbus, Georgia and this box almost certainly was made by one of the various manufacturers associated with the Columbus Depot.
This painted canvas rifleman’s cartridge box is a wonderful example of Confederate resourcefulness during the War Between the States. The outer body and flap are made from a doubled sewn layer of painted, waterproof canvas. The end panels utilized leather. Each inner flap and the tool pouch are made from a single layer of painted canvas. The now missing closure tabs were made of leather. The closure finial is brass. The inner flaps and tool pouch are virtually perfect. Two close up pictures show very small areas where the canvas surface was touched up. The canvas is flexible, the tins intact, the stitching tight. Because of their fragile nature these rare boxes are very hard to find in any condition, but this is one of the finest condition Confederate canvas cartridge boxes one will ever see.

Enjoy!

[marktaylor]

Re: Painted Cloth Box and cap pouch Construction Information/Sources

Here are the measurements & notes I have.

[dirtyshirt]

Re: Painted Cloth Box and cap pouch Construction Information/Sources

That's good stuff Mark! Thanks!

[MO-Pard]

Re: Painted Cloth Box and cap pouch Construction Information/Sources

Mark-

This post is a kudos to you, and not a slight on anyone, by any means....

It is this, "breaking bread" spirit, which moves the hobby forward..... I fault no one for making items for income, but even if kepi, box, etc info is shared relatively few will still attempt such. However, we encourage all those both on the path to our level or at our level to sew/construct these items to understand them.

My hat is off to you........ and I'd like to buy you a beer....

Best Regards....

[marktaylor]

Re: Painted Cloth Box and cap pouch Construction Information/Sources

Not a problem! I hope it proves useful to both of you guys. If either of you or anyone else does take on the project, please report back with the results.

William, Brands and Co. had contracts from 10/1863 to 2/1864 for a total of 11,600 sets. N. Crown & Co. had contracts from 6/1863 to 2/1864 for 6,050 sets. This info was originally published in North/South Trader article, 'Confederate Oilcloth Accouterments".

One thing I found interesting on the original box (Old South Antiques) is the lack of binding on the edges. It appears the layers of cloth were simply stitched and the edges left raw. I have seen at least one other original (I cannot remember where) with un-bound edges. The original my notes are made from had a bound edge. The examples in EoG appear to have bound edges.

In "Columbus GA in the Confederacy", Standard states that by early 1862 the Eagle Mill was producing 1500 yards of cotton duck weekly. Undoubtedly some of this was used in the production of painted cloth items. Interestingly, Brands & Korner (known to have contracted for sets of painted cloth accouterments) produced 1200 yards of India rubber cloth weekly, with and additional 1000 yards by Eagle Mill weekly in 1862.

Jay, I'd love to take you up on that beer offer sometime!

[coastaltrash]

Re: Painted Cloth Box and cap pouch Construction Information/Sources

Watch out Jay, Mark can drink!

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Painted Cloth Box and cap pouch Construction Information/Sources

Maybe I'm late to the party on this one, but where have we found conclusively that the 45th Ala had these accoutrements? going from the above numbers, the William Brands contracts hadn't even been signed and the N. Crown contracts were for 6K sets from June of 63 to Feb of 64....making it shaky at best that these accoutrments would have been seen with any sort of regularity by in the Army of Tennessee in Sept/Oct of 1863. Not trying to be a hardon about it, just curious.

[marktaylor]

Re: Painted Cloth Box and cap pouch Construction Information/Sources

That's a good point, Bryant. I know that Major Dillard was having troubling finding leather as early as fall of 1862; he obtained permission to impress hides in September of that year. He eventually set up a tannery for shoe leather in Columbus.
Hopefully Lee White will see this discussion- maybe he has some info on painted cloth accoutrement use at Chickamauga.

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Painted Cloth Box and cap pouch Construction Information/Sources

Mark,
thanks for sharing that bit of research. I'm sure ol' lee will join in when he see's the thread...he has been busy lately trying to put the band back together.
The 2 contracts mentioned in this thread are the only 2 I have ever seen. Maybe there are more.

[LWhite64]

Re: Painted Cloth Box and cap pouch Construction Information/Sources

Seen, and yes I can shed some light on this. We know painted cloth items were used at Chickamauga. I know of a relic hunter who found the remains of a set on Non-NPS battlefield land, a lead finial with the remains of painted cloth around it, as well as a CS clip corner buckle with the remains of painted cloth around the hooks, dug in the same spot. The following is from the 1863 annual report of the Atlanta Arsenal:

Infantry Accoutrements
A large number of Cartridge boxes were overhauled and repaired from damaged stores. The boxes answered equally as well as new ones, for our service, for the new box soon gets in the condition of these. No Doubt most of these stores are collected from the Battle field, and from men in Hospitals, etc and are really serviceable, but require overhauling. Very often having the entire flap cut off, and the box otherwise abused, tins lost, etc. This work was done in the Arsenal, and also in part by contractors.
The cloth accoutrements, which were turned in as damaged, could not be repaired, we could only save the magazines, from such as had them, most of the cloth ones were of the first style, made without the edges being bound; the last made were much better and make a very good substitute for the leather.