Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

[Jimmayo]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

Remember that the Depot system started due to the unavailbility of material and labor to clothe the army under the commutation system. I think the color of trim would be affected by the supply of whatever color was requested/required for the seperate branches of the military.

There is another picture of a soldier in the same unit as Thomas Owens showing the same jacket trim on the web page below. I have always wondered when the unit was issued these uniforms but have not found any evidence of time of issue.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/9va/rifles1.html

[garyjd]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

I also wonder how many of those trim colors may have also turned over time. Period photography is not always a help with light colors photographing dark and vise versa. ~Gary

[Malingerer]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

This is probably not remotely helpful but the early war regulations for North Carolina prescribed yellow trim for cavalry, red for artillery, and BLACK for infantry. Granted, this is just one state and likely has no bearing on the RD question - but maybe.

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

Color wheels aren't always helpful in determining true colors of fabric and trim in period photography. They can help sometimes in determining a range of colors, but hardly in determining exact colors. There are environmental conditions to consider as well, such as the texture and weave of the cloth and the lighting conditions in the room the photo was taken. Black satin trim on a period coat will photograph lighter than the black wool broadcloth the coat is made from, because of the weave of the material. A black velvet collar will photograph darker than the black broadcloth body because of its weave and texture.

Dark blue trim on a light gray coat will photograph very dark, especially if the trim has a rather matte texture.

Also, how is black dyed trim any easier to produce than indigo blue dyed trim?

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

This is probably not remotely helpful but the early war regulations for North Carolina prescribed yellow trim for cavalry, red for artillery, and BLACK for infantry. Granted, this is just one state and likely has no bearing on the RD question - but maybe.

Yes, but as mentioned earlier there is the original 47th North Carolina Jacket in Les Jensen's article that is trimmed with 1/4" dark blue cotton taping with 1/2" black velvet chevrons...

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

http://www.oldsouthantiques.com/os520p1.htm

well, what do you fellers make of that one?

[dirtyshirt]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

Hey Bryant,
THAT is a cool jacket... Material looks right for the date. The trim certainly looks like it was put there to start with...I think this reinforces the idea that blue trim (as well as others) could adorn a "Richmond Depot Type 1) to Ian's point. What does everyone else think?

[mdougher]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

I think its a neat jacket, but it doesn't help the argument. Blue piping being available and used in 1865 does not mean it was available and used in 1861. We still don't have any proof, either way.

Mike

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

While not an RD1...
The Diggs jacket (Diggs being a cavalryman) is trimmed with yellow tape.

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

I think its a neat jacket, but it doesn't help the argument. Blue piping being available and used in 1865 does not mean it was available and used in 1861. We still don't have any proof, either way.

Mike

what makes you think that this jacket is from 1865?

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

Jacket Construction = $150
Wooded Hamlet Blue Twill and Cord to Make Requisite Piping = $20
Travel to Event = $250

Sporting a cool jacket that looks like no other in the ranks = Priceless

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

Jacket Construction = $150
Wooded Hamlet Blue Twill and Cord to Make Requisite Piping = $20
Travel to Event = $250

Sporting a cool jacket that looks like no other in the ranks = Priceless

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

What a bargain!

By starting this conversation I wasn't looking to carve out a new niche for hardkewls to separate themselves from the masses. I remember back in the '90s most mainstream attempts at reproducing these jackets featured branch of service color trim, then came along a few hardcore guys with reproductions of these jackets based largely on the Kent, Paine & Co. jacket trimmed in black. People thought it was pretty cool seeing the black trim, it was something different and before you knew it no "authentic" reproduction of these coats was complete without black tape trim. It became status quo, but I've always wondered just how common black would have originally been, no one seems capable of proving it one way or the other, which is fine. I think it's important for us to occasionally rethink some of our assumptions and try to get back to understanding the true historic record.

[mdougher]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

what makes you think that this jacket is from 1865?

'64, '65, late '63, the point is its not '61. Materials changed significantly through the war. It helps with the argument that blue trim was used during the war, which I don't believe anyone would argue with, but not that it was used on RD 1 jackets.

As I said before though, cool jacket. The trim and cuff buttons are certainly different. Not your typical type 3

[bAcK88]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

'64, '65, late '63, the point is its not '61. Materials changed significantly through the war. It helps with the argument that blue trim was used during the war, which I don't believe anyone would argue with, but not that it was used on RD 1 jackets.

As I said before though, cool jacket. The trim and cuff buttons are certainly different. Not your typical type 3

How do you know for sure that this jacket is from the 63-65 period? Fine English cloth was being imported into the Confederacy starting in mid-62.

[Citman05]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

'64, '65, late '63, the point is its not '61. Materials changed significantly through the war. It helps with the argument that blue trim was used during the war, which I don't believe anyone would argue with, but not that it was used on RD 1 jackets.

As I said before though, cool jacket. The trim and cuff buttons are certainly different. Not your typical type 3

So no argument about blue piping being used on Confederate jackets during the Civil War, but you would argue that it was not used on Early Richmond (Depot, clothing bureau), jackets? Or do you mean to say that there simply are not any surviving examples? Because I don't believe there are any surviving early war infantry Richmond (Depot, clothing bureau) jackets to begin with.