Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

[Busterbuttonboy]

Re: Searching for instructions on adding woven tape to a RD jacket

Tom,

"Not saying that blue should be ruled out, but in context, blue as the infantry branch color was very new at the time of the war. White tape had been the infantry color from 1808 to the 1851 regulations, and the white trimmed jackets were still issued in the 1857 Mormon campaign. As stated previously, black trim was associated with many militia units, and codified in some state regulations."
This is very interesting and speaks to extant private purchase garments which were made with a of variety of color choices perhaps. So in short the real question being asked herein is if the "RD1" were indeed produced by the government in mass what were the trim color(s), vs a commutation system wherein the color choices might not reflect government regulation and more predisposition.

Brian,
"Thank you! I agree 100%. "RD1 and RD 2" produced by the depot are the same thing. I believe they were producing this "early RD jacket" from early 62-end of the war. "
Why and how? Not that I beleive your argument does not have any validity but explain it further. This board is about progression and documentation. Are the coat constructions the same in all existing garments? (I realize there is no documented RD1) If your opinion is true then we can then close the thread and safely assume that trim color wasn't limited to black. Lets tease that statement out.

[Citman05]

Re: Searching for instructions on adding woven tape to a RD jacket

Why and how? Not that I beleive your argument does not have any validity but explain it further. This board is about progression and documentation. Are the coat constructions the same in all existing garments? (I realize there is no documented RD1) If your opinion is true then we can then close the thread and safely assume that trim color wasn't limited to black. Lets tease that statement out.

I am already there, close the thread and lets not limit "RD I's" to black. lol

"Thus, the Type II Richmond Depot jacket may have been in production as early as the Spring of 1862, judging from Harris' picture, with the transition between the trimmed Type I and the untrimmed Type II being somewhat gradual and overlapping. The Type II was certainly in use in 1863 and 1864, based on the White photograph and also on the well known view of Confederate prisoners captured at Cold Harbor in June, 1864, in which the majority wear jackets with shoulder straps and belt loops (FIG 15). At least three of the dead Confederates photographed at Fort Mahone in April, 1865 have shoulder straps on their jackets, although the majority do not 57 Therefore, at least some of these jackets were still in service at the end of the war."- A SURVEY OF CONFEDERATE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT QUARTERMASTER ISSUE JACKETS Part 2 by Leslie D. Jensen

In my mind, if someone were to show up for an event portraying ANV (excluding some specific unit that we had specific documentation on what they were wearing at the time) and was wearing an untrimmed "RD2" and as long as the event was portraying summer of 62-1865 I dont think anyone could tell them they are incorrect. I know they were much less prevalant in 64-65, but they were still in the ranks.

I realize we want hard documentaion, in my mind bottom line for this thread we want to find out what the trim color was on an early Richmond Depot issued jacket. In my opinion were chasing a ghost. Maybe we cant find a trimmed RD issue jacket becuase it dosent exist.
"...the Richmond Depot Type I, was a jacket with a six piece body and two piece sleeves, with a nine button front, shoulder straps and probably belt loops. There were generally no buttons on the cuffs. The lining was probably a cotton osnaburg. The distinctive point about the first pattern jacket, and the feature that distinguished it from the Type II, was that it was trimmed on the collar, shoulder straps and cuffs with either tape or piping. However, because all of these details must be either gleaned from photographs or inferred from later practice, there is still much that is open to discussion. Moreover, because these jackets were produced during the official commutation period, they may very well have had in¬dividual differences created by the demands of unit com¬manders. An internal note written to the clothing bureau commander in 1862 is a good indication of this:

"Col. Starke wishes a stripe on the pants for his Regt. a bar on the shoulder to be added to the cost of course. You are authorized to comply with his wish..." 49

"More important, there is compelling evidence that this basic pattern was copied by non-government manufacturers, with the result that jackets of very similar pattern existed from the same period which were clearly not Quartermaster products." 50

I know most of this is Leslie D. Jensen talking, but like we all agree there isnt much to work with. I hope this post makes sense, I have been adding to it throughout a meeting and it may sound scatter brained but my point is, whats an RD I?

[Busterbuttonboy]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

"I hope this post makes sense, I have been adding to it throughout a meeting and it may sound scatter brained but my point is, whats an RD I? "

Made perfect sense to me.

[dirtyshirt]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

"In my opinion were chasing a ghost"

I agree with that. I don't think we can say for sure what they were. As long as we stay within the gray area, we should all be fine.

[CSchneider]

Re: Searching for instructions on adding woven tape to a RD jacket

whats an RD I?

Thank you Mr. Huerta! As I've believed for awhile and argued either here or on another forum before, there really isn't much evidence that the "RDI" was anything more than a common style of trim seen on commutation era garments from a variety of sources that happened to end up in a lot of Rees Gallery photographs. Now, let's all ease our dogmatic adherence to Jensen's typology, build upon his original research, and begin to expand our knowledge of the Richmond Clothing Bureau.

-Craig Schneider

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Searching for instructions on adding woven tape to a RD jacket

Thank you Mr. Huerta! As I've believed for awhile and argued either here or on another forum before, there really isn't much evidence that the "RDI" was anything more than a common style of trim seen on commutation era garments from a variety of sources that happened to end up in a lot of Rees Gallery photographs. Now, let's all ease our dogmatic adherence to Jensen's typology, build upon his original research, and begin to expand our knowledge of the Richmond Clothing Bureau.

-Craig Schneider

Here here.

[dirtyshirt]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

Ignore my previous post, I posted in the wrong thread. Mods, please remove.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

I saw this ad from the Richmond Daily Dispatch for April 9, 1863. I'm sure there are other references out there:

Runaway
--$50 Reward.--Ran away from the subscriber, on 19th day of last February, my negro Boy, Jim. He is about 17 years old 5 feet5 inches high; gingerbread color; when spoken to has rather pleasant countenance; had on when he left a gray military jacket, with black cuffs and small blue cord around the collar; black pants with small while thread in them; blue striped shirt, and brown fels hat; army shores tapped on the heal. No marks recollected except a small scar on the brow of the right eye. I suppose he is now in Richmond or with the army near Fredericksburg. For his delivery to me in Richmond, or confined in any jail where I can get him, the above reward will be paid.

T Flanagan.
Richmond, Va.,

[PieBoy96]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

A friend just found this quote and I thought I'd add it to this thread:

"It was some time after the war began that the Confederacy adopted any paticular uniform. The color was universally gray, but the cut of the cloth varied materially,.... we were a motley-looking set, but as a rule comfortably dressed. In my company we had about four different shades of gray but the trimmings were all of black braid." –Valerius C. Giles, 4th Texas

[Petersburg Grey-back 12]

Re: Appropriate Trim Color for Type 1 Richmond Depot Jackets?

Hello!
Think i'll chime in on this for images. Recently, I saw a photo of a Mathews County VA infantryman, wearing an RD1 jacket, clearly marked with light blue ink or some dye on the tintype. Thought it odd, as I've never seen light blue tinting on other images, just the red as stated before. The image was in the Gloucester-Mathews Gazette Journal, about April or May-ish i believe. I'll try and find the image!
_____________________________________________
Pvt. Henry Bouscher
12th Virginia Vols.
Petersburg Greys