Of Unpainted Knapsack, Painted Cloth Gunner's Haversacks, etc.

[LWhite64]

To reply to the ongoing thread on Painted Cloth accoutrements I went through my box of CS equipage research and over a decades worth of print outs from here on the AC and my old message board. Anyway, a couple of subjects I thought I would revisit since it has been several years since they were brought up. So has anyone come across data on unpainted CS knapsacks, specifically if anyone has found out what pattern they were using to make them? Speculation is that its a Mex War bag pattern, but still trying to find definative proof. Also, Painted Cloth Gunner's haversacks, there are CS Ord. reports to them, being made, and the late George Woodbridge had an illustration showing one, so he had to have viewed one at some point. In the illustration it shows a simple bag with what appears to be a webbing sling. Anyway, some things to discuss and throw about.

Lee

[Iron Scout]

Re: Of Unpainted Knapsack, Painted Cloth Gunner's Haversacks, etc.

Greetings folks,

To throw more speculation on the topic that Lee has brought up so well let's look to the Nov 11, 1862, cargo of the Justitia that did successfully run the blockade per the McRae papers. Even at this "early" date, it appears Caleb Huse was fully aware of the deficencies at the Arsenals/Depots and purchased the following:

500 Knapsack strap middlings
642 pounds mixed cut leather for knapsack trimmings
1258 yards knapsack cloth
10,000 sets knapsack furniture
I'll let everyone else make the assumptions but the information is very interesting. Much more later on this topic but wanted to throw that out there.

Regards,

Neill Rose
PLHA
Iron Scouts

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Of Unpainted Knapsack, Painted Cloth Gunner's Haversacks, etc.

Lee,
the only thing I canr ecall about unpainted knapsacks probably came from you and it was a quarterly report showing where a good number (maybe 15K or more) had been produced in the 1st 2 quarters of 1863.

[PenPusher]

Re: Of Unpainted Knapsack, Painted Cloth Gunner's Haversacks, etc.

Lee,

I came across the following on Footnote at http://www.footnote.com/image/#30685736 It lists 1200 White Duck Knapsacks received by the Atlanta Ordnance Depot on 14 Aug 1862, no indication of pattern. The knapsacks were manufatured by Barber Greenwood & Co.

Found a further invoice, same company, listing both painted and unpainted knapsacks, http://www.footnote.com/image/#30685743 Painted cost $3.25 and unpainted at 60cents and $1.00. this invoice also received at Atlanta on 11 Nov 1862. The two prices for unpainted knapsacks suggested two different styles. Also of interest is these knapsacks were also being shipped to Richmond.

[Gallo de Cielo]

Re: Of Unpainted Knapsack, Painted Cloth Gunner's Haversacks, etc.

Lon Webster's book Entrepot has some information regarding unpainted knapsacks and haversacks. I don't have it in front of me but there is some very interesting info contained there-in, particularly with regard to numbers and manufacturing centers (I want to say that Nashville was making and issuing a lot in the war's opening months).

Regards,

[Fauxban]

Re: Of Painted Cloth Gunner's Haversacks, Huh??

Also, Painted Cloth Gunner's haversacks, there are CS Ord. reports to them, being made, and the late George Woodbridge had an illustration showing one, so he had to have viewed one at some point. In the illustration it shows a simple bag with what appears to be a webbing sling. Anyway, some things to discuss and throw about.

Lee

Now I AM intrigued!!! Any similar findings for cloth tube pouches?

Since you already have said data on hand, how about posting them here, for our perusal?
Are any specific arsenals, depots or batteries named? Is this early or late in the war, East or West?
Any commentary on their utility, success or failure in action?

I'm prepared to be convinced such creatures were manufactured, perhaps even issued, yet I MUST doubt their efficacy...
At a loaded weight of 12-15 lbs for a fixed round of ammunition that's gotta be some monster of a bag. I'm thinking twice or better the size of a standard Federal haversack, so you don't hafta fight the rounds into & out of it. Shot, shell, case or canister, plus sabot, powder charge & fuse that'd put an awful lotta strain on a simple webbing sling wouldn't it??

There's reasons why the Ordnance Manual calls for leather, protection being the first, & durability the second. I'd hate to drag a mildewed, rotten, festering piece of cloth outa the confines of the limber chest, have an explosive projectile & its propellant stuffed in there, then run under fire from the caisson to the muzzle hoping it doesn't fall at my feet...

I'm really looking forward to seeing your reports, & that drawing, for myself.

[Lazarus Driver]

Re: Of Painted Cloth Gunner's Haversacks, Huh??

Mr White,
You stated that the late George Woodbridge had a drawing of a painted cloth Gunners Haversack but you did not say where the drawing is. Would you please share this info. I would also like you to share the CS Ord. reports that state they were made. This could prove very interesting and I would like to have more Artillery discussions.
Thanks
Bill Thomas
Driver
Lazarus Battery