Prewar sporting arms of Texas

[hardeeflag]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

Here is a nice belt rig that I think may have been typical of a Texan and on of the AZ & NM Terr. This was an image I found of an offering a while back of Capt. Bethel Coopwood. He was a Texan who had been residing in San Bernadino, Calif. before the war. When the war began a great deal of Californians made their way back South passing through the area, Including Alebrt Sidney Johnston, some stayed like Coopwood. He raised the San Elizario Spy Company. Most of these men were from "Arizona". The unit ended up serving attached under the portion of the 2nd Texas Mounted Rifles under Pyron. Many of these men would Transfer to Sherrod Hunter's Co. A, Arizona Rangers which eventually with other local companies would become Herbert's Arizona Battalion serveing eventually in Texas and LA - Red River Campaign.

Anyway here is a nice belt rig of Coopwood's. If you go to the link below you can expand the details of the descriotion. Also in the upper left you can see more images. This has been floating around from dealer to dealer for a while but I never saw the guidon finial and remant of the guidon associated with this collection. I like the collection though. See the link:

http://www.artfact.com/auction-lot/confederate-civil-war-remington-new-model-army-pe-1-c-fb1aa65bc6

[gsusat]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

Rich and guys

I wanted to offer some of my thoughts. First on that id'd set. It is quite nice and interesting. One area of caution though. The pistol is a new model army that did not start production until 1863. The serial number is low for a new model and while I am not familar with the specifics of Remington's production it could/ probably date from mid - late 1863. How that gets in his hands in Texas then gets to be interesting speculation - Red River campaign. So the pistol at least did not go with him to New Mexico. Still it is an interesting set.

Getting to the Texas arms. I think one of the earlier posts touches on a very good notion. A middle class guy in Houston in the 1850's is looking for a different type of rifle that someone on the frontier. And while the survey sample is impressive - numerically it is quite small. I would try to seperate post-war from pre war and that is somewhat problematic.

I ran across a paper that has a interesting historic footnote. This comes from a congressional report and is dated January 6 1846. It is a report listing arms taken "from a party of Texans within the Territory of the United States by Capt. Cooke, 1st Reg't Dragoons, June 30, 1843...." It does not say how big the party of Texans were, but the arms are listed and they tried to establish a value of the weapons. The list while earlier than your period in question does present a slice of what this party of men had on the frontier. I suspect they may have been a detachment from the Texas army. Anyway the list:
30 Flintlock Rifles; 12 percussion rifles; 15 English flintlock shot guns; 3 Tower pieces; 1 Large American flint lock shot gun; 2 double barrelled flint lock, stub and twist, shot guns;4 Percussion lock, double barrel, stub and twist, shot guns; 3 Half-stock, percussion lock, Middletown rifles.; 1 Full stock percussion lock, Middleton rifle; 1 half-stock, flint lock. Middletown rifle.; 2 American dragoon carbines.; 1 American musket; 2 Texas muskets.; 4 pairs flint lock holster pistols; 2 pairs percussion lock pistols.; 8 Flint lock holster pistols; 7 Percussion lock belt pistols; 1 Percussion lock duelling pistol.; 1 Sabre and scabbard, brass mounted.; 1 Sabre, no scabbard, steel mounted.; 1 Steel sword and scabbard.
Head Quarters Fort Leavenworth, August 5, 1844 C. Wharton, Major 1st Dragoons, Commanding.

Needless to say if they put more detail it would be interesting. Still there are some interesting points.
Mixture of Flint and percussion arms.
42 rifles ( sporting ? military seems to be identified)
22 shot guns including 6 double barrelled one
5 Middletown rifles ( 1817 rifles made by Johnson which were marked Middletown on the lock ?)
3 Tower (Muskets?)
1 American and 2 Texas Muskets. Presume the 1816's Tryons made for the republic.
Pistols and swords.

Seems like 75 longarms -

One book I would I would highly recoment is:
Firearms of the American West, 1803-1865 (v. 1) [Hardcover]
Louis A. Garavaglia
Louis A. Garavaglia (Author)
(Author), Charles G. Worman

The book is a good read and has lots of first hand accounts on life on the frontier. It tends to focus on sporting arms.

Another suggestion would let your impression impact your firearm as well. Hunting Bufflao or Indians I would want something stout with a good large caliber. Shooting around the farm I would want something light and small caliber.

It does sound like fun though....

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

42 rifles ( sporting ? military seems to be identified)

I'm still not into this "sporting" rifle thing. There have been a few good civilian rifle threads over the years that embrace better terminology. http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...country+rifles

[hardeeflag]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

Yea I suspect Coopwood’s belt rig to be in its current form from mid war or even modified from war time use a little with post was use. Coopwood’s company was a 12 month company so like I said earlier most of the men went to Sherrod Hunter's company in early 1862 and ultimately the Arizona Battalion. Writings indicate Coopwood to have been associated with 2nd Texas Cavalry [a.k.a. 2nd Texas Mounted Rifles] after that but have seen no record of that officially in secondary resource. The 2nd TMR fought in Majors Cav. Brigade in the Lafourche Campaign in LA and were mostly dismounted! Accounts say it is because of discipline issues and mutiny. They were loaded in anything with wheels to keep the pace of the brigade up. The unit did a head on charge on the Federal Works at Thobodeaux under the worst rain conditions imaginable and were bloodily repulsed. The unit was rendered basically ineffective after that and I don't see much of them except scattered referenced in Texas after that. So I imagine the pistol and all date from the time period of mid war but reflect the set up a typical Texan may have wanted (knife etc.).

I'm still not into this "sporting" rifle thing. There have been a few good civilian rifle threads over the years that embrace better terminology. http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...country+rifles

Not to get off topic but here is a the term "sporting Rifle" used around Atlanta in 1962:

DAILY CONSTITUTIONALIST [AUGUSTA, GA], March 13, 1862, p. 2, c. 3

[For the Constitutionalist.]
Our River Defences—Organization.

. . . For the proper defence of the more exposed rifle-pits to be constructed at shell [sic] Bluff it is necessary to have not only expert marksman [sic], but that they should be armed with a superior weapon to the common musket or military rifle. Now in every Southern community there is a class of persons known as “good shots,” and is exceedingly desirable that all of these in our midst should be collected together into one company for military drill and service instead of being scattered amongst the different companies, and many of them probably detailed for duty where their skill as marksmen, so elsewhere, is utterly thrown away.
To this end a list has been left at the store of J. N. Freeman, where persons owning good rifles or double barreled shot guns, and who are desirous of joining a corps of Sharp Shooters for the defence of the city can enter their names and obtain all necessary information regarding the proposed organization.
Persons who are possessed of good rifles but who are unable to use them at present, will do the city a service by sending the same to the Mayor, who will receive them on the part of the city and give certificates of deposit for each arm so delivered.
It does not appear to be generally known that the common American Sporting Rifle is, when the calibre is not less than 60 to the pound, nor the twist less than one turn in five feet, fully equal to the Enfield in range, and much superior to it in precision, if fitted with a properly proportioned conical ball. The double-barrelled shot gun is also a much more formidable weapon than is generally supposed. With the “Nesler ball,” its practice at 400 yards is not greatly behind the rifled musket, and much superior to the smooth bore musket. Even with the round ball it much exceeds the accuracy of the ordinary musket, provided the ball is tightly patched. A model of the Wursternburger ball—the one used in the Swiss service, and the range of which exceeds that of the Enfield or French rifles by nearly one third, has been left at Messrs. Rogers & Bowen’s for the use of those wishing to have their moulds altered to fit their rifles for military service. The proportions of this ball, however cannot be retained if the twist of the grooves is less than one turn in four feet. If between four and five feet, the ball should be shortened one eight. A model of the Nesler ball may also be seen at the same place for those who propose using the double-barrel. It is desirably [sic] that the planters living near, or in the vicinity of Stoney Bluff, Griffin’s Landing, Lower Shell Bluff, and other defensive points along the river should construct rifle pits of their own at each of these places.
Those who wish instruction as to the proper manner of doing so, can obtain it by applying either by letter or in person to Major G. W. Rains, or the writer at this place, or to Mr. M. B. Grant, Engineer at Shell Bluff. Persons desiring information as to the best pattern of conical ball for their guns will be cheerfully furnished with such as I can give to them upon application by letter or in person.
It is to be hoped that the marksmen of Augusta will not neglect this opportunity for thorough and complete organization, nor those having good weapons—but who are unable from ill health or other causes to make efficient use of them in the present junction, will refuse to hand them over to the city to be used by experts in their defence. We should have but one Nashville on our national record.
C. Shaler Smith.
Engineer Confederate Powder Works.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

I'm sure I could Google several similar references as well, but that still doesn't make me comfortable referring to these utility guns as sporting rifles. The issue isn't with you Rich, but with the orginal author's work that you copied here.

[Blair]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

The primary difference between "Country" and "Sporting" rifles of the time period will be based more on the embellishments the customer can either afford or is willing to pay for.
Plain iron furniture compared to brass or German Silver patch box and/or other decorative inlets.
Plain straight grain woods or highly figured woods of the same species.
Being able to shot one well may depends more on working up a load that that weapon will shoot well.

It is a bit like buying a standard grade firearm from your local Sporting Goods Store, compared to buying the same thing from a Custom Shop or the manufacturer, with all the bells and whistles that happen to meet your individual standards and economical situation.
This is based on my "opinon" of the variety of weapons avaliable during the time period and locaction,
Blair

[gsusat]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

The term "Sporting" is question. That it was used during the period does not seem to be in doubt. I also ran across some period references to "Sporting Arms" including one from the Confederate Arsenal in Marshall Texas "...stores rec'd... 307 double-barrels, 247 sporting rifle ditto, .. Rec'd on the 19th: 886 sporting barrels..."

That being said the period problem they were dealing with has to do with arming the troops. While that particular report dates from 1864 early in the war you see the disussion of arming the men for the front. Many went to war with rifles from home. The natural progression from military men was to standardize the calibers and put a bayonet on these rifles. And there was a rush to do that, as well as to get rid of any civilian arms. The governor of Tennessee refered to them as Tennessee rifles. As you mention Country rifles was another term used. I guess the philosiphical question: Is there a difference in the different terms. Are they catagorizing the rifles. My opinion is not.

Assigning catagories and types seems to come from the modern collecting world. Perhaps it should be civilian arms vs military arms. But "Civilian" does not seem to be used at the time. During the period they seem to be focusing on getting some kind of standard arms in the hands of the troops. IMHO though country rifle does carry the impression of being simpler and perhaps cruder. In the list of Texas rifles there were many made in the east and then sent to Texas to be retailed there. Those would not be custom made arms, but I have a hard time calling a rifle made in the shops in Philadelphia a "country " rifle. Perhaps I will just use the term "civilian" To me that clearly differenciates it from Military arms.

Just my humble opinion.
Thanks

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

Hallo!

I would agree.

But with a minor caveat that we "Moderns" tend to use a stricter "denotation and connotation" along with typologies as a useful tool when talking about and discussing Period forearms. And a carry-over to reenacting and living history. Particularly when it comes to Period accounts and documents where both informl and formal lax usage drives us crazy because we seek understanding at a level of detail often greater than 19th century folks. (Ex: the Period use of the words/terms "rifles," or Tower muskets," and the pesky musket, musketooon, carbine, rifle, rifle-musket, rifled-musket, etc., etc).

In brief and to over-generalize...

In the North, and moreso in the South, the "History" of things in 1861, 1862, and even through 1863ish tends to show that the initial need is to arm new troops with a firearm of some sorts- whether a '"brought from home" shotgun, hunting rifle, obsolete flintlock musket from a war or three back, European cast-off's, etc., etc. Then progressing to things more "martial" according to the military science of the day and to make ammunition supply and resupply less of a nightmare. Etc., etc.,

But the difference between a tool and a weapon can be in how it is used.

In my head, a "sporting arm" is upper class or rich man's dove, quail, or quail type fowler used while wearing top hat, coat, tie, and riding boots.. Much like today's Krieghoff over-and-under. ;)

Perhaps it would be easier to have two classes of terms for our discussions: civillian and martial/military (and deal with the occcassional exceptions such as shotgun armed CS cavalry. And, make it, if not fish, then fowl?

But, on the other hand, we rarely agree on terms and terminolgy, let alone the use of "labels."

;) :)

Curt

[hardeeflag]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

I recently saw a report from 63 or 64 regarding the arms in the hands of Arizona civilians in case it was necessary to call militia forces into active service. The reporting officer specifically noted that pistols were present in abundance but that there were inadequate long arms in civilian hands should it be necessary to call upon their service. His recommendation was to create a stockpile of Mississippi rifles or Musketoons since any militia force in the territory was likely to serve mounted. I'm recalling this from memory but, once I get down to the report and transcribe it, I'll let you know.

Troy, I was thiking about the pistol comment above. I have been reading some items regarding the prewar Texas Rangers and also some of Capt. James H Tevis, who prior to the war had raised a company of Arizona Territorial Rangers (similar to the Texas Rangers) to protect against Apache raids. I would imagine that a brace of pistols would be very important in fighting against Comanche and Apache Indians. A single shot rifle would need to be very well placed to be effective. In Tevis' book Arizona in the 50's he gives a recollection of fighting off Apache with two revolvers in a gun battle. I do not see how he could have done what he did without a pair of revolvers. I also recall that when he escaped from Cochise and made his way back to Messilla, the Chiricahua Indian he had befriended, Chief Esconolea, freed him and gave him back his "two six shooters". Firepower would have been important against the Apache and Comanche.

[Blair]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

It is important to note that the term "pistol" and "revolver", while both are side armes... can mean very much different kinds of weapons.
Few people, today, can determine the differences in the original text from the two variations due to "our" modern day preconceived ideas of just what a handgun/pistol/revolvers actually are by definition.
Don't read more into the text than is there!
Just a thought on my part,

[hardeeflag]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

Mr. Blair,

I know for a fact in the references I mentioned after the quote, I was talking about above it indeed is a revovler. I am noting also that this is prewar and in an area where indian activity was quite active. I in no way and talking about this to justify a jose whales impression. I am discussing purely for historical discussion.

[Blair]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

Mr. Rich,
Your quote (s) above mentions: "a brace of pistols" and later "two revolvers" as if they are one in the same! The fact is, they are not!
Not even in the terminology of the time period!
Do you have dates, times and places... to go along with your quotes? It may help to determine usage of "pistols" and/or "revolvers"
Justifying a fictitious move character like "José Whales" is not something I ever considered.
Why would you?

[hardeeflag]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

Well I am certainly not going to get hung up on vernacular as I am typing from a keyboard. Why would I? I am simply getting an understanding of this area in the time prior to hostilities, which is quite different than anything east of the River. The book I was referencing is a memoir of Capt. James H Tevis. No it is not a diary but a memoir he mentioned several times having two revolvers in his recollections during his work on the Butterfield Stage Route and as a AZ Territorial Ranger. Don't see what the issue is.

[Sut Lovingood]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

Rich,
I had a long reply, well thought out, with many suggestions...and it was wiped out for what ever reason. So you get the short, not as good, version.
Blair is correct and is only trying to help you.
Tevis memoirs...grain of salt my friend.
There was no such thing as Arizona Territorial Rangers in the pre-warTevis era....we were still New Mexico Territory. Arizona Guards, Arizona Rangers, and other names...yes. I mention this because some of the webpages which relate this era of AZ history and use the term Arizona Territorial Rangers...are wrong, as is other information they say is history. So scrap those websites.

I suggested to you before to use primary sources from our state's many archives (pre-war newspapers "Weekly Arizonan", "Mesilla Times", business records and papers from/regarding communities of Tubac, Tucson, Pinos Altos, Mesilla, Fort Buchanan, Calabasas, Casa Blanca, Yuma). You do this...and you will have your answer, and be able to back it up with sources.

People used what they had, and some had more than others. There is little need to "imagine" what people used, the information is there enough to form a good idea. I know, I looked up this stuff years ago myself.

[Sut Lovingood]

Re: Prewar sporting arms of Texas

Advertisements from The Weekly Arizonian, printed in Tubac.
July 7, 1859
____________________________
Colt's Navy Six-Shooter Pistols.
For Sale by
White & Grainger,
At Fort Buchanan.
____________________________

White & Grainger, at Fort Buchanan, have
for sale, Rifles, Double-Guns, "North-West"
Guns, Powder, Lead, Ely's Caps, Shot, Gun-Wad
ding.
____________________________

PISTOLS AND CARBINES.
A Supply of Colt's Navy Pistol, (new
pattern,) Also, Pocket "Six Shooters," together
with a number of six barrel Carbines and five-
barrel Rifles; FOR SALE at the Store of Sonora
Exploring and Mining Company, Tubac.
Frederick Hullseman
store keeper
____________________________
end of advertisement examples. As a side, White & Grainger or Hullseman are the only local gun dealers mentioned in the whole run of advertisements in 1859...and those ads above are the same ones that ran month after month.

*The Colt's rifle was also reported to be used by Irwin at Fort Buchanan to kill two Antelope with one shot. That article gave praise to the rifle...and Sam Colt was at the time investing in some mining interests nearby.

There is the famous duel between Cross and Mowry using Burnside carbines.

The killings reported in the paper during 1859 (when detailed) mention pistols quite often. Also reports of some Grizzly attacks and those men (as reported) did not have firearms. These attacks were on more than one occasion.

Opata Indians, south of the border armed with European firearms.

Also, Washington D.C. was sending "current model carbines" to help some fight Imperialists. By 1860 some of those men and their arms filtered into AZ and NM.

Grayden's 1849 recently sold at auction. From the serial number date of the weapon (which was late 1850s), he had to have purchased it in AZ or NM since that was the only place he lived until he was killed.

And you may be surprised how many people were completely unarmed, even in Apacheria. Accounts where someone had to go to a neighbor because the neighbor had arms is not unheard of. I am not talking about people in town either.

These are just a small assortment of examples. As you can see, it is varied. We only had the one press, so Texas newspapers, records, will offer much more to find in print.