Vivandiere?

[Archie R. Lib]

Gents:

Anyone have any input or comment regarding the attendance of vivandiere at an EFUBU or a campaigning event in an historically accurate non-combatant role?

Thanks for any response.....

CPL Rich Libicer
1st NM Vols
"Kit Carson's Own"

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Vivandiere?

Hallo!

Vivandiere and cantiniere type posts are usually lightning rods for problematic posts.

IF the impression matches the unit, time, place, and circumstance(s) of an actual vivandiere or cantiniere present at the scenario that the EBUFU is depicting, it should not be an issue.

Curt
Moderator Mess

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Vivandiere?

I'll echo Curt and add that I've done some research on my own into this subject and find that vivandieres were never part of the official army establishment, that some volunteer units that started with vivandiers soon sent them home (the 39th NY, "Garibaldi Guards" being a great example), and that many tales of the exploits of vivandiers on the field are clearly apocryphal (e.g., Annie Etheridge at 2nd Bull Run), or conflate "vivandiere" with laundress or nurse. I'm pretty sure that no one participating on this forum has a problem with any impression that can actually be documented, but so far no one has stepped up to the plate to argue for vivandieres, anytime or anywhere.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Vivandiere?

Seems pretty simple. If one was at the historic time and place being depicted and was part of the specific situation being recreated, one should be there. If not, then not. Which is what Curt said. That about sums it up.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[CompanyWag]

Re: Vivandiere?

The previous comments by Curt, Mike and Hank pretty much sum up my view on the subject. When you look deep down inside, if you're really trying to justify an impression in order to be inclusive rather than to improve and add historical dimension to a given event, then maybe it better be left alone.

Paul McKee

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Vivandiere?

I'll go one step further: the person portraying the viv needs to be *extremely* accurate in material culture, knowledge, and bearing, too... on top of the documenting to military unit, time, and location.

[Archie R. Lib]

Re: Vivandiere?

Thanks to everyone for their great responses.....Good information. I am looking for an accurate historical portrayal, not just a viv for a viv's sake. So, plenty to think about and research!

Rich Libicer

[KPavia]

Re: Vivandiere?

I came across a mention of a viv in the "Gone for a Soldier: The Civil War Memoirs of Private Alfred Bellard"
Pvt. Bellard served in the 5th New Jersey Infantry from 1861 until his discharge in August 1864. After being wounded at Chancellorsville, he mentions a viv in the field hospital-

One of the men died at this hospital who had been shot through the breast and was held by a vivandiere of one of the regts. in her lap, until he was dead.

pg. 219

There is also an original drawing done in color by Pvt. Bellard in the book I have of the viv. She's wearing what seems like a blue frock coat, red trousers with a yellow stripe down the side, some sort of slouch hat with a huge big feather in it, and her hair is cut short like a man's. If I can find some way to scan my book, I'll post the image here.

[Archie R. Lib]

Re: Vivandiere?

Thanks Kenny. I'd be interested in seeing that image.

Rich Libicer
1st NMVI
"Kit Carson's Own"