Pennsylvania State Jackets

[Kanawha Riflemen]

Re: Pennsylvania State Jackets

Aaron,

You are right and we talked about this at the Fox's Gap event on Saturday. This time of year is busy for the South Mountain and Antietam staff and I have not been able to contact Ted Alexander at Antietam NPS. I have left him voice mails on his personal phone about what he has on this topic. I want to see what Ted has on file during his life time of research from Pa soldiers. I am hoping that maybe someone on the AC might be able to shed some more light on this topic while I try to contact Ted. I also contacted my friend at the USAHI to see what he has.

John A. Miller
South Mountain State Battlefield
Monterey Pass Battlefield, Washington Township

[Blanket Head]

Re: Pennsylvania State Jackets

John,
Thanks to a tip from Les Jensen on the above mentioned jacket worn by Harper I was able to contact Tim Sheads about a month ago concerning getting a reproduction made. While it was an official request coming from our museum, I've discussed with the curator at the Mercer about the potential of taking a road trip down to review the Harper jacket. And while the details have not yet been worked out, I'm hopeful we'll be able to get Jodi Nolan to work up a fine reproduction which we're hoping to use in our upcoming early war exhibit. In addition, for those of you looking for other info on the PA state issued jackets, there was an article written in the July/August 1982 Issue of Military Images by Mike Winey entitled "Pennsylvanians in Gray - Early Civil War Uniforms in the Keystone State."

Regards,

Kaleb Dissinger
Curator of Uniforms
US Army Heritage & Education Center
Carlisle, PA

[Kanawha Riflemen]

Re: Pennsylvania State Jackets

Kaleb,

If I am not mistaken, Tim received your order the same day I went up to talk to him about that very jacket. I have heard USAHEC was looking into having some made. I have an actual weekend coming up where I am off, I do plan on popping into Tim's shop. I have seen this article [July/August 1982 Issue of Military Images by Mike Winey entitled "Pennsylvanians in Gray - Early Civil War Uniforms in the Keystone State."] and I am looking for a hard copy for our archives. Thank you Kaleb.

John A. Miller
South Mountain State Battlefield
Monterey Pass Battlefield, Washington Township

[GrumpyDave]

Re: Pennsylvania State Jackets

I thought you could use some actual information besides the above,"Hey, that's a cool jacket," useless information that's between here and your original post. So here we go.

If you were to contact he AHEC in Carlisle Pa, in reference to these "Gray" Pa, State jackets, well, here's the short version. The "First Defenders" sent to the Union Army, from Pa, had their uniforms made by contractors within the state. At that time, as we should all know, there was no standardization for uniforms, North, South or anywhere in between. So, these units had made what they thought looked nice. turns out, some of these uniforms were gray over gray, which, didn't work out too well as you may know at 1st Manassas. All of these uniforms were changed out for goods made in Philadelphia(Schulkill), or purchased from contractors shortly after May 1, 1861. these "state jackets" can be found in 12, 9 and 7 button varieties, untrimmed "NY State" type jackets, untrimmed Cavalry and Artillary jackets, epuliattes(sp) optional and some things in between. If you would like more detail, I suggest you contact the AHEC in Carlisle directly and 'splain to them your looking for specific PA units who wore "Gray" at 1st Bull Run or one of the other battles in northern or western Virginia that happened before 1st Manassas. There are also some other books written whth photo's and drawings of these "early early" war Pa state uniforms. However, you should find no example where these uniforms were worn after 1st Bull Run. Even though there are some pretty good exixting Quartermaster records for this time period, they may not help you at all. Most of the time, they just say, "jackets" or "dress coats." One couold assume the "dress coat" is a frock but the "jacket," who knows. Only if you had a perfectly identifed photo and a corosponding quartermaster document.

This should get you started: AHEC: http://www.carlisle.army.mil/ahec/

Bibliography of information on CW uniforms: http://howardlanham.tripod.com/biblio.htm

Book, "Uniforms of the Civil War:" http://books.google.com/books?id=bGA...0books&f=false


There's way more information, try google, it'll make your head spin.

the other cavat is these jackets(gray) bore no resemblance in construction to anything that came out of the South. So, if you really want to "do it right," the only time you'd be able to wear one of these jackets would be when you're portraying a specific Pa unit prior to May 1, 1861. Is it worth the time and trouble to have one? And, you'll find both of these PA units carried either '42 Springfields or flintlock cone-in conversions. You'd need to buy the appropriate musket and 'couterments too. But, hey, it's your nickle. Hope this helped.

[acook]

Re: Pennsylvania State Jackets

To add some more "useless cool jacket information" I think I have seen digital clips of that article "July/August 1982 Issue of Military Images by Mike Winey entitled "Pennsylvanians in Gray - Early Civil War Uniforms in the Keystone State." I do not remember where, but do remember it only being clips, not the entire article if we are talking about the same thing. It was a seed stratified, awaiting germination with regards to researching these wacky uniforms. I am not a great historical researcher, and I work a lot in an unrelated field, so I apologize for chiming in with useless information and bad references! With the little information I have found in various sources, John is definitely correct in his statements about the jackets never being identical, which is troubling when you are trying to reproduce an item for a museum, unless it is for a specific regiment or company. To add a thought, didn't a lot of pre-war militias utilize grey cloth for their uniforms?

Now with all this information from the latest post and given "Grumpy's" comments about jacket construction, John can you or anyone elaborate further about the history of the jacket in the Mercer museum? It is possible that like we discussed, it is a prison issue/exchange item..a Richmond jacket given to a PA prisoner? I guess Kaleb kind of did with his post but to recap, I have learned from this thread so far: The jackets are cool, but little information and even less of the original garments remain (unless you try Google, which will make your head spin..I am not picking, it is just that multiple Google books said that same thing and when I posted a link to the one I thought was most comprehensive in it generalities, i got told my Google book source was laughable!) fast forward. The AHEC curator of uniforms has begun to examine and pattern a documented jacket housed in a museum, to produce and display in an AHEC exhibit about PA issued items. Photographic evidence suggests that grey uniforms differed (no doubt due to the varied contractors producing them), and of the few that survive, the curator chose the one that utilizes construction methods that very much resemble southern garments, even though some of us feel that southern patterns did not resemble the jacket that never looks uniform in pictures...ahh, what a can of worms. John, Kaleb..since you are both professional historians, please write us a book that answers all of these and future questions!

[GrumpyDave]

Re: Pennsylvania State Jackets

I am amazed the AHEC guy hasn't driven 15 miles to the Pa State archives and looked at the two jackets stored there, another mile to the National Civil War Museum and looked at the one there or, down the road 25 miles and looked at the one in the Gettysburg NPS collection. Strange....huh?

[Jim Abels]

Re: Pennsylvania State Jackets

Mr. Towsen,

Did you mean the State Museum vs the Archives? That's news to me, but I will definitely have to make a trip up to check that out as I'm definitely interested in PA troops during the war!

For the rest of you guys interested in PA troops, I offer the following:

I think that they may have had some paperwork at the Archives on the stuff that the "First Defenders" had, but I was crunched for time so the Reserves received my full attention. While not pertaining to the grey uniform issue directly, I do know that the Pennsylvania Reserves (1st-15th Reserves or 30th-44th Regiments) were the first units that received the blue uniforms, as well as the first units that the Commonwealth contracted to uniform and equip. This will at least limited the scope of research to the earlier regiments if you're trying to nail down who wore the grey.

If you have a week to kill, take a trip to Harrisburg during the work week to check out Records Group 19 (RG-19). Soon you will find yourself surrounded by books containing everything from the bids put out in the newspapers for contracts, logs containing info from the sealed bids from the contractors, paperwork on what was received, as well as bills and correspondence between the Commonwealth and the contractors. Very cool stuff and all of it is the original copies!!!

Some neat things that I found in the records were that stuff coming in as bids from contractors were quite specific....even down to the type of materials like wool or satinette. They looked into getting frock coats made from kersey (not broad cloth) but canned the idea since they had "Indigo blue twilled flannel blouses" on the way....these were mentioned to be lined as well. Brooks Brothers became a very popular source of caps, blankets came from a source in Massachusetts which featured a "PV" for Pennsylvania Volunteers" instead of the "PM" originally called for. Trousers were ordered in dark AND light blue which was interesting, and they were pretty particular about getting stuff that met the Army Standard, often times turning down a contract if none of the bids met the regulation. Most of the stuff came from within the state from contractors with canteens being the only thing picked up from Uncle Sam that I was able to find.

On the topic of the Arsenal in Philly, they had some correspondence on that as well:

Long story short, when the war started, PA sent a guy down th Philly to try and get his hands on as much stuff to outfit the regiments that the Commonwealth was going to send to the war. Here's the short version of his reply that was in end of the year QM report:

From the Qm General’s report dated 31st Dec ’61 RC Hale QMG PM

“The supply of clothing and other stores in the United States arseanal in Philadelphia, was extremely limited, and uniforms and suitable clothing could not be had from that source."


While not able to support the Commonwealth, they did offer the use of a "tech rep" to help with procurements:

From a letter from MC Meigs QMG

General: the arrangements proposed in your letter of the 7th inst., relative to providing clothing for the new regiments called from Pennsylvania, are approved, and will be carried out by officers of this department, the State contracting for the supply of the articles, certified bills of which should be sent to this office, where they will be examined and their payment provided for.

Col. Thomas, Assistant Quartermaster General, in Philadelphia, having been directed to detail a trusty and skillful inspector to examine such material and clothing as you may desire, you will please give him timely notice as to when and where the services of the inspector will be provided.

Very Respectfully,
Your obedient servent,
M.C. Meigs,
Quatermaster General



Before I close, here's a few more random pieces of info from RG-19:

421 Gilham’s Manuals were on hand at the close of ‘61

All State Military property was transferred to the Feds for reimbursement on 31st March 1862

Pay-back to the Commonwealth was made in three payments:
$499,988.95 2nd June ‘62
63,140.20 16th July ‘62
9,087.25 6th Oct ‘62

144 Gilham’s manuals on hand in '62

12,533 Tents, De Arbe were on hand at end of ’62 issued to Penna. Militia in Sept ‘62


Sorry for my rambling, but the info I found was too good not to share!

Jim Abels

[Bob McDonald]

Re: Pennsylvania State Jackets

Gents:

A few months back, an ambrotype of Pvt. Morris L. Stradling, 71st PVI (1st CA), appeared on eBay. The small label reading "M. L. Stradling, killed" pasted to the cover glass was surely clipped from a Philadelphia newspaper listing of the casuaties of Ball's Bluff, where, as described by one of the regiments diarists, Stradling was the first man of his company to be hit. Overall, with the matching greatcoat, IMO, a fine uniform, albeit accident-prone.





Cheers,

Bob McDonald

[Pvt.Bowz]

Re: Pennsylvania State Jackets

Jim,

You may have just posted some info I've been looking for. Did you see any other references to tactics manuals in the info you researched?

Thanks,
Bob Bowser

[Bob McDonald]

Re: Pennsylvania State Jackets

Although unidentified, here's another very early war Pennsylvanian wearing the state-issue uniform. Clearly, the jacket is a match for that within the Mercer Museum collection, also shown below.


Cheers,
Bob McDonald

[Jim Abels]

Re: Pennsylvania State Jackets

Mr. Bowser,

All that I saw was the Gilhams, but I was only going through the Reserves section. There's a ton of awesome info up there in Harrisburg!

Mr. McDonald,

Thanks for sharing the photos. Definitely an interesting jacket!


Jim Abels

[Pvt.Bowz]

Re: Pennsylvania State Jackets

Mr. Ables,

Those are exactly the units I was wondering about! The question I was looking to answer was what manual the Reserves began the war with? Your info has definitely pointed me in the right direction.