Weapon defarbing

[rogue]

Re: Weapon defarbing

Somewhat off topic, yet on.
Many reenactors rely on Echoes of Glory to study originals. Helpful, but no way worthy as an ulitiamte source. As I submit this there is a Civil War relic show happening down the road a piece in Wheaton, Illinois, and seldom do reenactors of any stripe show up there. Handling originals is a way to be able to determine if an item, musket or 'catridge box, is an original. The sight, smell, construction and weight tell the tale. But you must avail yourself of the original items, the items themselves, not a photo alone. Most dealers at shows do not mind if you handle, with permission...except for the odd Confederate frock, and do not try them on! The fear of ebay has always been the verbal description and photo (often poor), ya gotta touch it.
A shout of praise to two pioneers, Val Forgett Sr. and Mike Yeck. No one will ever confuse a Forgett made model 1863 Springfield with an original if they research any at all, with NAVY ARMS CO. stamped in highly visable places. And Mike Yeck of Dundee, MI stamped REPLICA or YECK on his belt plates when few else did, and when the repro plates were made with lead backs. Bravo to both.
An educated consumer is unrivaled.
S.Sullivan

[David Fox]

Re: Weapon defarbing

I've collected since the 1950s. As Comrade 'Rogue' alluded to above, for me odour is almost a sovereign test for 19th Century leather. I do believe I'm not going to be taken in by defarbed long guns, but to live is to learn. Having said that, since the '70s I've shied away from all C.S. brass and almost any rare martial handguns. Folks have been tricking-out faked Palmetto weapons (pistols especially) and rare Colts for more than fifty years and replicating some extraordinary swell C.S. beltplates for almost as long... they're an esoteric class and I know my limitations. A few rules of the road: never buy Civil War headgear with the sweatband missing (I've seen a distressed WW I U.S. Army campaign hat on a noted dealer's table labeled as a Confederate slouch), presume all Confederate side knives are fake until proven otherwise (in this, my home town lived a fellow whose hobby was assembling REALLY fine, aged D-guard side knives from old wood, vehicle springs, and worn-out hoof rasps...same materials and same methods as utilized by Soutron blacksmiths in 1861), Since I can no longer remotely justify to my good wife or even myself acquiring C.S. leather, that's no longer a problem. Buying exotic Civil War items off eBay is an oxymoron.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Weapon defarbing

Hi All!

At the end of the day, the difference between an "authentic reproduction" and a "counterfeit" is criminal intent and whether one is an "educated consumer and and informed customer."

IMHO, as both a former builder of "authentic reproduction" guns AND a user of "authentic reproduction" clothing and kit, my "authentic" kit of today has the potential to be the frauds and counterfeits used to cheat people tomorrow, ten years, 50 years, or 200 years from now.

IMHO still, there is linked relationship at work. Where there is a will to defraud, there is a way, and the more authentic a reproduction is, and the less educated and informed a potential buyer is, the easier it is to insert criminal intent and swindle them.
At one end of the scale, it takes little or nothing. At the other end, knowledge and skill with heat, chemicals, acids, abrasives, stains, tints, stress, and weathering can produce counterfeits that fool even some of the experts some times. The difference is... the "intent" between wanting/needing to use exacting reproductions and the decision to defraud and swindle.

And sometimes the old caveat is indeed true... IF something is indeed too good be true, it may just well be.

If you cannot afford the loss, be an "educated consumer and and informed customer" by researching and learning and knowing- and buy from established reputable businesess (with both eyes open). While not a perfect guarantee, it helps...

Curt
Who last saw a nearly new repro Hicks' rifleman's knife being priced and sold as an original by a well known and respected dealer, and who was "rebuffed" when I pointed it out Mess.
And who second last saw a Richmond lock simply inserted into an M1861 "Springfield" and being prices and sold as a Richmond piece by a well known and respected dealer, and who was "rebuffed" when I pointed it out Mess (No, it was not presented as a possible CS armory redo/repair of a damaged captured M1861 with the lock possibly replaced by a Richmond lock and not a collector in 1940. It was being sold as an intact, actual Richmond made piece.)

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Weapon defarbing

I hate to say it, but most of the Richmonds I have seen at gun shows were rebuilt from 1861s.
But on the other hand, if you can't tell a defarbed repro Enfield from an original from ten feet
away, you need your eyes checked.

And I have also noticed that "respected dealers" are not appreciative of that kind of sharing of information.