Confederate-Issue Austrian Lorenz

[Archie R. Lib]

Gents:

I have done a bit of research but have come up dry, and am looking for some input if anyone can offer it.

I know that the majority of the 1854 Lorenz rifled muskets purchased by the Confederacy (apparently about 100,000 of them according to what I've read) found their way to the AoT and to Trans-Mississippi Confederate units, especially mid- to late-war. However, I have seen mention in other sources (Troiani, for example, in Soldiers in America 1754-1865) of their being carried by units within the ANV up to and including the spring '65 campaign and surrender at Appomattox CH.

There is no unit specific information in these sources, however, and I am wondering if there are sources specific to individual units. So far, I have not been able to locate a research source to corroborate any of these claims.

Were these "ANV" units actually other (western) department units on detached service perhaps during a particular campaign, or were there actually ANV units that were issued the Austrian 54? If so, which units were they and in what period would this issue have occurred?

Thanks in advance for any input.

[Mississippian]

Re: Confederate-Issue Austrian Lorenz

I do know that almost all the units of the "Tramp Brigade" of South Carolina regiments (17th, 18th, 22nd, 23rd, 26th, & Holcombe Legion) were issued large numbers of Austrian rifles in late 1863 and early 1864 while they were stationed around Charleston. They were sent back up to Virginia in May 1864 and fought throughout the Petersburg siege. During this time I've seen ordnance reports stating they were issued Austrians, Enfields, CS Richmonds, and even a few smoothbores were still in the ranks.

Will MacDonald

[Don Dixon]

Re: Confederate-Issue Austrian Lorenz

Captain John M. Payne was the Confederate Ordnance officer in Wilmington, N.C., between July 19, 1863, and January 12, 1865. Begining on August 20, 1863, Payne began dispatching significant quantities of Austrian rifles and Austrian rifle ammunition that had been run through the blockade, to Colonel William Leroy Broun, CSA, who commanded the Richmond Arsenal. Since the Richmond Arsenal serviced the Army of Northern Virginia, presumably some number of them were issued to that army. Which units received them, I cannot tell you at this time.

Regards,
Don Dixon

[BobbyHughes]

Re: Confederate-Issue Austrian Lorenz

While not ANV, I believe IIRC, that the VMI Cadets carried Austrians at New Market.

[ContinentalMorganGuard]

Re: Confederate-Issue Austrian Lorenz

I have to find the reference but parts of the Stonewall Brigade was issued Lorenz rifles I believe in 1863. I see if I can find it and post later.

[Archie R. Lib]

Re: Confederate-Issue Austrian Lorenz

Thanks gents. Good info so far.

I didn't know that the Tramp Brigade were issued Lorez muskets, Will. I would have figured they would be outfitted with Enfields what with the Charleston port available to state procurement agents...That is interesting. Though by the late war the Enfields would definitely have been drying up.

Don - do you have the specific sources I can go to for those transfers to the Richmond Arsenal in August '63?

Looking forward to your future posts too, Robert. That is exactly the kind of info I am trying to track down.

Thanks for all the help and input, and keep your powder dry!

[Mississippian]

Re: Confederate-Issue Austrian Lorenz

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?29721-Papers-of-Capt.-T.S-Fayssoux-Ordnance-Officer-Evans-Brigade

Here is the Tramp Brigade ordnance thread from last month. Shows some of the issues to the Brigade.

Will MacDonald

[Don Dixon]

Re: Confederate-Issue Austrian Lorenz

Rich,

The Museum of the Confederacy holds Payne's documentation. An abstract is contained in Whisker, James B.; Hartzler, Daniel D.; and Yantz, Larry W., Firearms From Europe (2nd Edition), State College, PA, Josten’s, 2002.

Robert Hughes,

Your information is correct. The VMI cadets carried 200 Austrian rifles at New Market. The balance of the Corps carried M1851 Springfield cadet muskets. The rifle carried by Cadet Private Charles H. Read is on display at the Hall of Valor on the New Market battlefield. It is a Muster 1854, Type I, infantry rifle, with fixed quadrangular bayonet. The barrel is bent at a severe angle from the shell that wounded Reed with a shell fragment above his right eye. Surprisingly, Reed survived the battle, and was a well known architect following the Civil War.

Regards,
Don Dixon

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Confederate-Issue Austrian Lorenz

There is an Austrian rifle (Lorenz) in the Hall of Valor museum at N. Market that took a ball to the barrel and was badly damaged.
IIRC, the placard said the museum discovered it was still loaded at some point.

[ContinentalMorganGuard]

Re: Confederate-Issue Austrian Lorenz

Although not the most scholarly source, my snipit of info comes from, The Men at Arms series, "The Army of Northern Virginia."
On page 20 it states: "An officer of the Stonewall Brigade noted in Janaury 1863 that, "during that time some Austiran rifles were distributed among the Second and Fifith (Virginia) Regiments."
Too bad there are no foot notes or Bibliograhpy so we could see who this officer might be for a better context, I looked at some other Brigade sources and couldn't find anything. I'll keep looking!

[ContinentalMorganGuard]

Re: Confederate-Issue Austrian Lorenz

From the Stonewall Brigade website:
On May 26, 1862, Ted Barclay of the Liberty Hall Volunteers, Co. I 4th Virginia, wrote home that he was carrying a "Belgium gun."[3]

[3]. Charles W. Turner, ed. Ted Barclay, Liberty Hall Volunteers: Letters from the Stonewall Brigade. Natural Bridge Station: Rockbridge Publishing Company. 1992, p.71-72.

http://www.stonewallbrigade.com/articles_weaponry.html