1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

[lwtaggart]

Gents,
I am looking for a better description of the first weapons issue of the model 1855 rifle musket for three companies of the 1st. Minnesota. Were they Springfields, Harpers Ferry, or Whitney weapons? Richard Moe's, "The Last Full Measaure" explains they were Springfields. Unfotunately today, I find this more of a generalized descrption that all Model 1855 rifle muskets were Springfields. There are some very unique differences from the mentioned Armories.

Any help would be appreciated...
VR
George Taggart
Lee Lodge #30 F.&A.M.

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: 1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

George,

Ordnance records would not make a distinction between the manufacturers, just the model and caliber of musket. The best way of tracking the manufacturer itself would be to try and find any existing muskets with provenance to the unit being portrayed.

[lwtaggart]

Re: 1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

Dan,

Thanks for the reply on my question... Was hoping maybe our friends from the "great white north", would have some evidence of a manufacturers name mentioned for the model 55.

George Taggart

[101radioman]

Re: 1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

This link may help.

http://books.google.com/books?id=--RqTX8I_eQC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

have not read the parts on the 1st. The section on the 5th MN states they where issues harpers ferry rifles.

[lwtaggart]

Re: 1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

Michael,

Thank you for that link. Very helpful!

George Taggart

[JEBminnesota]

Re: 1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

George,
While conducting our research for "Raising the First Volunteers" We found that the 1st Minnesota had 1855's, 1842's and some had Mississippi rifles. Since the fort was owned by a private land developer and it was falling apart. The government sold what was in the fort in 1858.
The person I would contact would be Steve Osman

[lwtaggart]

Re: 1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

Joe,

Thank you for that tip... I take it, Steve O. is still at Ft. Snelling.

VR
George Taggart

[ScottCross]

Re: 1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

Steve Osman retired a few years ago from the Minnesota Historical Society. He has not been at the Fort for quite some time now. Steve is registered here, but you may also want to contact Jim Moffat, who is also here.

[Blair]

Re: 1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

George,

There are a total of 5 recognized variations of M-1855's. Two "Rifles". Commonly referred to today as the type I brass mounted Rifle and the type II iron mounted Rifle) only made at Harpers Ferry. And three "Rifle Musket" length arms made at both Harpers Ferry and Springfield Armories. Commonly referred to as the type I, II and type III depending on the time period and features found on them.
Dates of production for Harpers Ferry will be fro 1857 to 1861. Production dates for Spingfield will be from1858 to 1860.
Whitney does make two versions, one with Maynard Priming system and one with out (sometimes called or referred to as Whitney/Richmond). The US Government does not purchase any of these Whitney made arms. There are, however, some States that do buy these arms.

If you would like to e-mail me, I can send you photos of the two "Rifles" and the three "Rifle Muskets" as were manufactured by the National Armories. These photo may give you a good idea as to the features that define these type designations.

This info may not help you determine the exact variation of the M-1855 this Unit received. This will depend greatly on the nomenclature/description used within the official records, which can be lacking in the actual details needed for proper ID-ing the exact arm.
I hope you find this helpful,

[David Fox]

Re: 1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

...Don't forget the cadet M1855 rifle-musket.

[Blair]

Re: 1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

David,

Or the single shot Pistol Carbine.
Both of which were made in very small number and not considered basic Infantry arms. But, worth mentioning.

[lwtaggart]

Re: 1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

Thank you all for your valued feedback...

What I hope to find is a definitive description stating the weapons some received indeed were the "Harpers Ferry', model 1855 rifle musket. Logistically it would seem given the location of Harpers Ferry to the frontier states at the time would make it a good option to supply them. Evidence showing some indeed were issued the Harpers Ferry raises this question. I know its a long shot.

VR
George Taggart
Lee Lodge #30 F.& A.M.

[David Fox]

Re: 1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

Bad opening for a forum observation, but, "as I recall", new Harpers Ferry arms were more often issued-out to the States under the 1808 Militia Act whilst Springfield production tended to be reserved for Federal issue. Harpers Ferry was subject to quality control issues.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: 1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

Hallo!

As shared, INDEED a very long shot as NUG that "level of detail" was:

1. not important
2. typically falls under the rather lax us eof "descriptors" BOTH among Ordnance folks and particularly among everyday soldiers. (Meaning an RM was likely to be a ".58 in a ammumition return, or "Springfield" or "Minie gun" could apply to M1855, M1861, SM1861, M1863/M1864 as musket, rifle, gun, etc., randomly.

IMHO, one would have had find a soldier somewhere who thought that the armory or contractor names on his gun was important to make note and write it down. (In the Modern World, it would remind me of a WWII soldier talking about whether his M1 Carbine was made by General Motors, IBM, Winchester, Underwood Typewriter, and the Rock-Ola jukebox company, etc.).

Curt

[Blair]

Re: 1st Minnesota/ Model 1855 Weapons issue?

Curt,
I agree.
The individual soldier may have found this important info, however, is not often the one filling out the returns and/or reports that we have access to today.
Sometimes there are clues in these reports. Such as the caliber of the arm. Or the type of bayonet issued with that particular arm that may give us a clue today as to what it was.
A great deal of confusion can often be added to this search, if one takes into account the "up grades" that were being preformed on the M-1841 Rifle's at Harpers Ferry between 1855 and 1861, just before the War.
These two models are commonly referred to as Harpers Ferry "Rifles" (along with the M-1803's and the 1819 Hall Rifles)

George,
I wish you a great deal of luck in finding the detailed description you hope to find.
Unfortunately, at least within my experience, this does not often happen.
In most cases, one has to take a rather educated guess (assumption) base on your individual knowledge of the weapons variations and the documentation that is available.

David,
As to the quality control issues Harpers Ferry may/might have had... I could not disagree more.
This is based solely on my knowledge of the various types of work and alterations HF was known for doing.