English Canteens

[Peachfuz]

Friends,
While doing some research at the local library here in Fairfax, VA I came across a book called The Civil War Reeactors’ Encyclopedia by William C. Davis. In it Mr. Davis states, while writing about CS canteens, “A significant quantity of English wood canteens was imported”.
Intrigued, I have spent many hours at the library trying to find out more, to no avail. Understanding that the local public library may not be the ideal place to find such information, I thought I’d post a thread here.
Does anyone have any information on English imported canteens, wooden or otherwise?

Thank you,
Rich Taddeo

[DougCooper]

Re: English Canteens

Rich - contact Sam Doolin, Mr Wooden Canteen, at oldrebshop@aol.com. Sam has done some research here and is in the process of making a copy of one of the Brit wood canteens.

[Michael McComas]

Re: English Canteens

The British canteen or "water bottle" is very large, 7 1/2" in diameter by 3 3/4" thick. It holds over a quart. The pre-1861 version is the most likely candidate for import. The pattern changed in 1861 and the later British issue canteens had the staves or "chimes" cut off flat with the face of the canteen. Tangled Web: Canadian Infantry Accoutrements 1855 to 1985 devotes about a paragraph and one illustration to this water bottle and its successor. There are a few more pictures of the different models of wooden water bottles in Weapons and Equipment of the Victorian Soldier by Featherstone. The 1866 list of infantry equipment simply lists it as "Canteen, wooden, with strap" and notes that it weighs 1 lb 12 oz (presumably dry).

Sam Doolin makes a marvelous copy of this water bottle. It's the canteen equivalent of the Henry rifle--fill it on Sunday and drink all week. Here's a picture of one, with a Gardner canteen for scale.



The British would have painted this water bottle a rather ghastly blue-green color, but I believe the one Sam copied was left unpainted. Unfortunately, in this picture the water bottle is backwards and doesn't show the contractor mark and broad arrow stamped in.

[County Militia]

Re: English Canteens

Would this import have been strictly limited to the Eastern Theatre of the War, and not the Western Theatre, especially west of the Mississippi?


Please signe your full name to every post! Thanks- Johnny

[RyanBWeddle]

Re: English Canteens

I'd like to see the citation that Davis uses in his book on the aforementioned quote...
That would help nail down some more info, where he the author get that info?


Can someone post that? Rich Taddeo?

[M.Latham]

Re: English Canteens

English canteen on far left....

Mark Latham

[RyanBWeddle]

Re: English Canteens

English canteen on far left....

Mark Latham

Mark,

What is provenance on those? G /|\ R makes it George IV at the latest, 1830.

Ryan

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: English Canteens

It should be B O for Board Of Ordinance with a broadarrow mark.
B O
/|\ or B/|\O
The oridnance marks should be branded on and not routed or carved as some copies have. The Crimean versions available are popularly painted a ''cornflower'' blue. The center example in Mark's post above appears to have remnants of that.
Sorry moderaters, I don't know the ordinance color name exactly. Don't ''farbism'' me again.

[Bill]

Re: English Canteens

Mark,

What is provenance on those? G /|\ R makes it George IV at the latest, 1830.

Ryan

The Mark in the center of the canteen is the British "Broad Arrow" which denotes acceptance by the English Ordnance Department. Right up to the present day, all weapons and equipment accepted for use by the British Army is marked with the "Broad Arrow". The mark is supposed to be obliterated when material is declared surplus, but I know that this doesn't always happen. (I've got a couple of WW II gas mask bags with the mark intact.) I have no doubt that the early model British canteens were imported during the Civil War, but I question how many of the surviving examples actually came from Canada, rather then the canteens that came through the Blockade.

[Sam Doolin]

Re: English Canteens

I have seen the letters BO and understood they stood for "Board of Ordnance". I have reproduced one these from an original having the letters SG. Never found any info as to what they referred to. Some are said to have to have had letters BO with the date 1853 - 1854 stamped under them. Any thoughts?

Sam Doolin

[RyanBWeddle]

Re: English Canteens

I understand, BO, GR, and what the broad arrow is....

Now, can someone get some documentation of them used by CS troops?

Is there one in the MoC?

RW

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: English Canteens

Ryan
I have never seen one with a true Confederate provenance.
Your question to the MOC will be answered in the same timely fashion as ours.

[Bill]

Re: English Canteens

I have seen the letters BO and understood they stood for "Board of Ordnance". I have reproduced one these from an original having the letters SG. Never found any info as to what they referred to. Some are said to have to have had letters BO with the date 1853 - 1854 stamped under them. Any thoughts?

Sam Doolin

Sam,

I viewed and measured a Brit canteen at the old Hulp's Hill museum in Strasburg, VA. It was marked B ^ O, with the date 1854 stamped under the BO. There were later canteens marked with WD (War Department ?) Like you, I have no idea what SG stood for on these canteens.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: English Canteens

EDIT...Never mind, I was seeing SG but thinking, GS for general service

[Michael McComas]

Re: English Canteens

The markings with the Broad Arrow vary depending on usage. B/|\O was in use some time after the beginning of the 19th C., though the Board of Ordnance had been around since the early 1700's. Before that, there are examples of G/|\R, possibly dating as early as the American Revolution. The Board was abolished in 1855, and from 1856 on the W/|\D marking is found, and in use through most of Queen Victoria's reign until the marking was abolished 30 Jan 1895 in List of Changes order 7815. The Broad Arrow was also used throughout the colonies as an ownership mark. For instance C/|\G is Cape Government (South Africa). I couldn't find anything on S/|\G, but the G is probably for Government. It has been suggested to me by a collector of British militaria that it may also be a contractor's initials, but I'm a little skeptical about that.