English Canteens

[verg]

Re: English Canteens

Robert,

In a typically British fashion, they called their mess tins 'canteens', so you will see equipment lists with both 'canteen, tin' and 'water bottle, wooden' next to each other. Two countries separated by a common language, indeed.

That's the short answer. I'll be happy to send you the brief history of metal water bottles in British service if you like. The first general issue was in 1888 for the Slade Wallace valise equipment, but Canadian battalions were provisioning themselves with sheet metal canteens from the 1866 Fenian raids onward.

Dear Friends,

I think you will find the British used tinned iron water bottles long before the ACW period as well. The two versions (pre and post ACW) resemble each other quite a bit.

John Novicki

[Michael McComas]

Re: English Canteens

John.

Do you have pictures of them? I'd be very interested.

Cheers,

Michael

[ContinentalMorganGuard]

Re: English Canteens

i know this is an old thread, but several questions were not answered. Ok, some say wooden British canteens are yes other say no, so is there any defintive proof one way or the other? Two, several people mentioned tin canteen, and I was wondering on that myself. When did the British stop using the tin Kidney or half moon shaped tin canteen. I know they were used in F&I and Am. Rev. Also even if they weren't using them would they ahve been surplus sent over?

I also have a possible answer for the SG question. At Williamsburg the fife and drum corp wear or wore wooden canteens with SG on them and from what the fife and drum corp website infers is that SG means State Garrison
"In the early 1990s, under the direction of Tim Sutphin, the regimental costumes were re- interpreted more closely from the one approved by the Virginia General Assembly in 1778 to be worn by field musicians who supported the Virginia State Garrison Regiment."
Maybe that helps.

Thanks!

[Greg Renault]

Re: English Canteens

This is from the NC museum of history site:

This British made canteen was among the goods imported by the Confederacy. The canteen is marked "1854" and was probably part of a large order of surplus military goods purchased by a Confederate agent in England. Wooden canteens like this one date back to long before the formation of the Confederacy. During the Civil War tin canteens were favored over wooden ones since they did not tend to leak. However, wooden canteens were frequently made in the South due to the lack of metal.
Wooden Canteen

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: English Canteens

Does anyone have an original proven Confederate-used, British water bottle with the "B /\ O" or "W/\D" stamp still-intact? I have read much on this topic of "B/\O" or "W/\D" marks being supposedly obliterated from materiel being sold to the Confederacy, and haven't found one with proven Southern usage. Perhaps there is a thread on here that addresses it, but I have used the search engine and can't find it. ;)

[lwtaggart]

Re: English Canteens

It could be some time for a responce from the MOC on this topic. I spoke to Robert Hancock just the other day. They are up to the eye balls in two major exibit changes. Not accepting any extra work right now. Good luck...

VR
George Taggart

[erik]

Re: English Canteens

The book "Entrepot" by Webster has several references to canteens and canteen straps being imported along with other English accoutrements.
On page 112 the SS Index delivered 2 cases of canteens to Wilmngton and on page 113 it shows 1 case sent to North Carolina and 1 case to Richmond. I have no idea how many would be in a case.
There are further references to canteens held in the Charleston Arsenal on page 148.
I am confident that these are the wooden water bottles as in every reference to mess tins they are called exactly that and usually accompany knapsacks.
As for tin waterbottles in use, I have seen one in the Ridgeway Ontario museum supposed to have been carried by Corporal Harman of the Queen's Own Rifles during the Fenian Raid of 1866. It resembles two small tin plates soldered to a tin cylinder. It was about 7" in diameter and probably 2" thick. It was probably locally made in Toronto.
These style bottles became common after the Raid and were ordered to be covered in leather by at least one Battalion.
The only other that I have seen is a kidney shaped bottle carried by a Major Elrington of the Rile Brigade during the Crimean War. It is shown and described on pages 224, 225 of "Crimean Memories, ISBN 978-0-7643-3228-9. On the same page is another ascribed to the 93rd Highlanders. I have never personally seen the second other than as shown in the book. I was able to see the RB one when in Winchester and was able to measure it and have it reproduced. It was in the Royal Green Jackets Museum. It was most certainly private purchase.

Erik Simundson

[Greg Renault]

Re: English Canteens

John Lloyd asked Does anyone have an original proven Confederate-used, British water bottle with the "B /\ O" or "W/\D" stamp still-intact?

The museum site's entry for this item reads as follows:

WOODEN, DRUM TYPE, TWO STEEL HOOPS, PAINTED BLUE-GREEN, WITH ORIGINAL WOOD STOPPER. ONE FACE IMPRESSED "BO 1854" WITH THE BRITISH BROAD ARROW ORDNANCE MARK, W/ LEATHER STRAP.

The broad arrow brand is clearly visible in the pic above.