Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

[LibertyHallVols]

Hey, Folks!

I'm working on my first Fed enlisted frock coat and had a question about the buttonholes...

I would like to ask if anyone could tell me how they were finished on original coats, or possibly post a picture of an example. Basically, I'm curious about thread that was used (silk, cotton, or linen) and how the button holes were typically finished (chorded? key-hole shaped? finished with a bartack?).

Thank you in advance for your help!

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

Anyone... ?
Bumping this up! Thanks!!

[jake.koch]

Re: Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

Have you seen the pictures on this site? It appears as if the buttonholes are of the keyhole variety, at least on the one in Wisconsin. The other pictures are harder to tell. Good Luck!

http://cwquartermaster.com/original_frock_coat.htm

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

Jake,

Thanks for the link.. Yep, I've seen those pics. The problem is that they are low res, so I can't really see much detail of the buttonholes. Even higher res pics at HA.com and other sites either lack resolution to show the button holes, or conceal the holes partially or totally.

I was really hoping for some input from folks who've examined coats "hands-on" and/or some good close-up photos. I had one PM from a fellow who said they were keyhole style with black thread, expertly done. In my mind, I see such buttonholes almost certainly being chorded, but I don't know that for a fact. So, I'd like to get a good description from folks who know.

Its a small detail, but I'd rather not spend an hour+ on each of 13 buttonholes if I don't need to. ;)

Thanks!!

[rpierson]

Re: Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

I've examined a couple OG frocks & the one I still have photos & notes on was corded keyhole w/ no bar tack at the end. "Expertly done" pretty well sums it up. Photos are not in digi format... sorry. I like bar tacks, so I usually throw 'em in. I examined an E. Tracy overcoat that had THE NICEST corded, keyholed, bar tacked buttonholes ever. I mention this to suggest that you can use a tidy bar tack with no "guilt" of improvisation. good luck!

-Randall Pierson

[wade03]

Re: Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

John,

I don't have the pictures on this computer I'll see if I can get them. The few that I have seen are corded, non-keyhole, and bar tacked at the back. They were sewn with a heavy two-ply tan linen thread. One I handled the cording was still black and the stitches were faded to tan. But i'm sure these details varied from arsenal to arsenal and contractor to contractor. For example the Boylan frock housed in Gettysburg has keyhole button holes and bar tacks at the back. The quartermaster specs on the uniform coat is black silk or black linen, while all other garments call for dark blue linen thread. Sorry for the lack of photographic evidence.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

That settles it... Corded/bartacked black silk it is. I still need to perfect my keyholes. Thank you for your help, gents!

If there are any pics that folks would be willing to share that show some detail, that would still be very helpful.

Thanks, again!

[JordanRicketts]

Re: Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

Did I ever send you those pictures?

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

Here are some photos for you John. I wish the quality was better on some of these!


Infantry Frock, Ross Co. Historical Society: Unknown manufacture, black silk keyhole buttonholes with black silk gimp.

Infantry Frock, former John Henry Kurtz Collection: Unknown manufacture, black silk keyhole buttonholes.

Heavy Artillery Frock, private collection: Schuylkill Arsenal marked, logwood-dyed linen keyhole buttonholes with logwood-dyed linen gimp.

The majority of original frocks I've seen were made by Schuylkill Arsenal and interestingly, the majority of these had somewhat crudely worked buttonholes in logwood-dyed thread. The rest had black silk buttonholes. Styles of buttonholes in all frocks examined were: keyhole w/bartack; straight w/one bartack; straight w/two bartacks; straight without bartack.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

Hallo!

This reminds me that I really need to bite the bullet and spend $400 to have a lab try to retrieve my reference documents and referecne photos form my dead head-drive.

Here is one though that may help:



Ideally, according to the QM specs- the button-holes were to have been black silk thread or the "same quality" black linen (cotton sneaking in later in the War). However, blue indigo dyed linen or cotton also sneaks in as expedients, and even cheaper (indigo shortages or contractor profit margin) logwood dyed thread that faded to brown or tan.

IMHO, the dress coat represented the peak of the arsenal/depot system due to be a rather complex and complicated garment as compared to say more "entry-level" drawers, shirts, and fatigue blouses. But, even at the "top," the skills and talents of the kit assemblers/sewers vary in quality.

Curt

[ScottCross]

Re: Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

John,

Send Paul McKee a PM. He did extensive research on the examples at the Smithsonian and other collections.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

Thank you, one and all!

Brian (and anyone else who's examined SA frocks in-detail),

A question for you regarding SA frocks:
The coat I am making is to be an "SA" frock, so that throws a li'l wrinkle in when it comes to the use of black silk (at least insofar as your observations of SA frocks). I have some logwood dyed linen thread of the variety carried by County Cloth and Needle and Thread. However, that thread is a rather fine, certainly not as heavy as the brown thread on the SA art'y frock shown in your pic.

Is your assessment of the linen logwood thread that I have the same as mine (eg - not appropriate for this use)?
Ifits not appropriate, what would be the "best" substitute? Brown cotton? Black? or... ???

Thanks again, folks!!!

I'm through with the hard part on this coat... The cuffs and collar are trimmed and the body is going together quickly. So, I'm anxiously looking toward the finishing details! We'll see how it goes.

Edit PS - Just saw your post... Will do, Scott!!! Thanks!

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

John,

I think I know the thread you're talking about. In my opinion I would go with the black silk twist for your buttonholes. There ARE original S.A. frocks out there that were sewn with logwood or indigo dyed linen in the body but used black silk for the buttonholes, I just don't have pictures of them on my computer.

Hit me with some pictures of your frock if you have any! I always like seeing your work.

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

Wick,

Based on my limited experience you will want to go with double twist silk, corded, in a key hole shape with a bar tack at the rear. I have only seen one frock that did not have a keyhole buttonholes (the Tilson USSS SA frock) and the silk twist is easily the most common of threads used. I hope this helps!

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Fed Enlisted Frock Construction Question

To the "W's":
Thanks, again, Gents! The silk is the easiest answer for me because I have plenty of it in the ole sewin' cabinet! So, that's great news. I'll pursue buttonholes of Dan's description.

I'll share pics when I can. This is my "freshman" effort on one of these, so it won't be perfection, but I'm pleased with my progress so far. I'm about to install the tail pockets, then it'll be time to assemble the large pieces together, then on to "Buttonhole Hell".