Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

[Cpl. Parker]

Me again asking for you assistance. I am looking at this Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine. I believe the nose cap isn't original to the rifle, who can say after all these years. Any thoughts, ideas or suggestion greatly appreciated. These are not my photos, borrowed from seller.

The owner wrote:

"OK, so I picked up this antique from the States, and it is definitely . . . different. It appears to be a cavalry weapon of some sort, as the side plate has 2 saddle-rings attached to it, and they definitely appear original. The cheekpiece has a distinctive Germanic feel to it. The barrel is a scant 14.5" long, and the overall length of the gun is 29.5", and the weight is probably around 5.5 - 6 pounds. Ready for this? The caliber is .75, rifled with 12 lands and grooves, and the bore is quite shootable."

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

From the ones that I have personally owned and ones I have seen - this is not the correct nose piece for this gun - nor is it the correct ramrod for any I have seen. Do an internet search for M1842 Austrian Carbines and you will see those. I tried to find one in my archives, but have yet to find it.

John Walsh

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

Check this link:

http://www.michaelsimens.com/Civil_War_Weapons_Muskets_Rifles_Carbines.asp

John Walsh

[Illinois Rebel]

Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

Hello,

The metal looks as though it was Bead-blasted. These are commonly known as Frühwirths. See this link.

Cheers.
Michael Collins

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...rate-Musketoon

[Cpl. Parker]

Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

Like I thought everything but the nosecap looks good. It does have an impressive bore8-)

[Don Dixon]

Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

CPL Parker:

Your carbine started life as an Austro-Hungarian (K.u.K.) Army Muster 1851 Kavalleriekarabiner (Cavalry carbine). The M 1851s came in two visually similar types. The only difference was in the barrels: one was smoothbore; and the other was rifled with the .71 caliber, 12 land and groove rifling shown in your photographs. All of the M 1851 carbines were originally manufactured as Augustin System tubelocks.

When the carbines were convered from tubelock to caplock, four conversion systems were used. The K.u.K Army re-breeched them with a forged breach section (Prussian breech) that had a snail on the right side of the barrel. The K.u.K. Army may have also re-breeched some with a Prussian breech that had a cone/nipple seat on the top right of the barrel. Those converted in Liege, Belgium, were converted by brazing a lump of metal on the top right of the barrel and drilling and tapping it for the cone seat. Lastly, someone converted some barrels by threading the Augustin System tubelock touch hole and screwing a snail into the right side of the barrel and brazing it in place. It appears that your carbine was originally one of those later conversions. However, that snail has been removed, and appears to have been replaced with a more modern drum conversion. I would seriously question the safety of this conversion.

The barrel band is not like those used by the K.u.K Army on the M 1851 carbines. They used a simple iron barrel band which was drilled for a screw at the bottom. They definitely did not use the type of brass band on yours.

In K.u.K. Army service, the carbines were not drilled for ramrods. Instead, the ramrods were carried on the trooper's breast strap. The 10,000 carbines imported by the Federal Army were drilled by the importers for ramrods. They didn't use the original Austrian ramrods. So, one sees a melange of ramrods on the drilled carbines. The one on yours appears to be a modern reproduction. It definitely is not from an Austrian gun of the period.

Hope this helps.

Don Dixon

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

Hallo!

What I need is trapped in a dead hard-drive...

But, I want to say it is either a Belgian clone, or possibly a Swiss canton clone of the Austrian M1842 carbine.

The ramrod itself is a replacement somewhere in time. But the subject of a ramrod hole is controversial. Meaning, numbers of them show up with ramrod holes and ramrods even though the orignal Austrian M1842 carbine did not have that feature.
Some argue, and maybe rightfully so, the the ramrods were retro-fitted, and some historians and collectors like to boost the value of these by saying that ramrods were added to the arms bought by US and CW agents- making them CW pieces.

Curt

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

I have seen atleast one image of two cavalrymen standing next to each other, each holding one of these carbines with no ramrods. There will be more information on this issue coming soon.

John Walsh

Hallo!
Some argue, and maybe rightfully so, the the ramrods were retro-fitted, and some historians and collectors like to boost the value of these by saying that ramrods were added to the arms bought by US and CW agents- making them CW pieces.

Curt

[Cpl. Parker]

Re: Austrian 1842 Cavalry Carbine

Great stuff guys, thanks again.
Kevin