Interesting Photo

[dusty27]

This picture is entitled "Confederate and Union dead side by side in the trenches at Fort Mahone" and is contained in the LOC collection. I was curious if anyone could comment on the pants and the way of wearing them on the dead Confederate. Are they tucked into a pair of boots? Are those "checks" on the pants?

[RyanBWeddle]

Re: Interesting Photo

This is a great image, I believe that they are both Confederates.

The foreground dude, is wearing a Tait Jacket w/buttons cut off and hacked off shoulder straps, a woven tight check pattern shirt, a funky vest with a tape/corded edge, and the other obvious gear, & etc.

The background unfortunate indeed does have a set of checked/plaid trousers stuck into his boots...when you open the tiff it is very clear....

They have both been looted, their pockets turned out and buttons missing off the Tait.... :baring_te (that would've been nice to see what they were!)

[Dignann]

Re: Interesting Photo

It also appears that the fellow in the background is sporting a civilian style vest.

Eric

[dusty27]

Re: Interesting Photo

Do you guys think the the foreground guy's pants are undone because of the "looking for my wound" thing or as part of the looting? With all the apparent blood on this guy's head/face, might he have been shot in the head? If so, what would explain the pants?

Also, Ryan, does that mean that the picture is incorrectly labeled? Based solely on the "borrowed" box and canteen?

Thanks

[styler]

Re: Interesting Photo

Considering the blood on the man's head, I have doubts he was checking in his pants for a wound. It appears that he suffered a head or chest/thorax wound.

Do his pants still have buttons? They may be open because there's nothing to hold them close anymore.

[RyanBWeddle]

Re: Interesting Photo

[QUOTE=dusty27]Do you guys think the the foreground guy's pants are undone because of the "looking for my wound" thing or as part of the looting? With all the apparent blood on this guy's head/face, might he have been shot in the head? If so, what would explain the pants?

Who can say? The dude is dead, he can't answer that...Nor can we. It could go either way...

Also, Ryan, does that mean that the picture is incorrectly labeled? Based solely on the "borrowed" box and canteen?

Yes, it is. More likely than not some dweeb in the LoC in the 1890s mislabeled it. No biggie, it's a sweet image. There is at least one other image of the same dude from another angle.

[JerseySkilletLicker]

Re: Interesting Photo

That vest sure seems to answer some of the questions posed on numerous threads about "civilian" vests.
Thank you for posting!

[CJSchumacher]

Re: Interesting Photo

Do his pants still have buttons? They may be open because there's nothing to hold them close anymore.

Bingo...there don't appear to be any buttons on his trousers.

Ryan is correct regarding the mis-identification. The facing, double row of topstitching, "viewable" finish on the B/G kersey, etc. all lend themselves to being of the Tait pattern.

I just wonder why his trouser buttons were so much more appealing, considering the other guys still has his. Well, at least for his braces, but most likely on the waistband as well since his pants appear to be closed.

[dusty27]

Re: Interesting Photo

Does anyone read anything into the broken sponge being in this picture? Maybe just where it ended up after an explosion?

[Dignann]

Re: Interesting Photo

Dusty,

The photograph was taken April 3, 1865 by Thomas C. Roche, who was working for the E. & H.T. Anthony Company, one of the largest publishers of photographic images during the Civil War.

According to William Frassanito's Grant and Lee: The Virginia Campaigns 1864-1865 (1983), p. 360, the original caption for this image was:

"Rebel artillery soliders, killed in the trenches of fort Mahone, called by the soldiers 'fort Damnation,' at the storming of Petersburgh, Va., April 2nd, 1865. The one in the foreground has U.S. belts on, probably taken from a Union soldier prisoner; his uniform is grey cloth trimmed with red. This view was taken the morning after the storming of Petersburgh, Va. 1865."

Frassanito believes that the sponge rammer is a prop added for effect, since it does not show in other variant views.

Eric

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Interesting Photo

Yes, it is. More likely than not some dweeb in the LoC in the 1890s mislabeled it.

And they did that alot!

Check out the unfinished edge to the trouser fly and the huge buttonhole.



You know... this may seem like a radical idea, but I think the man in the background is black. Look at how much darker his hands and face are compared to the soldier in the foreground, and notice the short natty hair. A teamster, perhaps? That would be one explanation for the boots.

[SCTiger]

Re: Interesting Photo

Jason,

I agree the soldier in the background is either black or bi-racial. All of their clothes are in good condition. As to the sponge rammer/artillery reference, the sponge rammer doesn't look all that used, it could have been part of the supplies they were carrying. Also notice the minnie ball on the ground and the other small tins and paper around the foreground, near the canteen and the left side of the image.

This was one excellent thread Dusty.

[msmjr]

Re: Interesting Photo

Les Jensen would say that the "federal" (I don't concur on the LOC's labeling)is INDEED wearing a Peter Tait jacket.

Look at Figure 24 on Les Jensen's article ( http://company.military-historians.o...federate-3.htm ).

If that picture in the article isn't the same one we are looking at here in the forum, I'm a monkey's uncle.

Jensen says that jacket is a Peter Tait jacket!

Regards
-Mike Montgomery

[JimKindred]

Re: Interesting Photo

Not trying to contridict anyone's opinion here but I would like to add a slightly different take on the wound.

The blood on the face could also have been caused by an internal wound with an entry in a lower area causing him to cough up blood and other body fluids, which dried on his face. Some of the blood could have also gotten on his face by his hand or someone who tried to help sticking their hand in a lower wound then touching his face with a bloody hand. The blood on his upper face does not match the drip pattern on the lower right side. His hands are shown with the upper side showing so it is hard to tell if blood was smeared by him.

Guerrilla bodies I view in El Salvador in 1989 were often bloodied in areas away from where the actual wound occurred. Bullets and shrapnel enter in odd places that a photo such as this may not show. Events following the wounding do not necessarily follow normal actions either. Men rub blood from their wounds on their face while laying out before they die as well as other places. Men try to help their friends and when finished leave the body in a situation that would make telling what happened from a photo hard to do.

Seeing a fresh battlefield in the flesh is a lot different than wondering what one looks like from photos.

[RyanBWeddle]

Re: Interesting Photo

Frassanito is off a little, who can say if they are artillery troops?
Who can say if it is a blue collar, red collar, gray cloth, etc.? It's a Tait, that is for sure.
Why does the dude have a cartridge box if he is artillery?.....
I believe the sponge rammer is a prop, as seen in the other photo of the body from the LoC:

http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/nhnycw/ad/ad41/ad41014v.jpg

Nasty blood on the face, poor poor MF'er. I agree with Jim, in that it might be coughed up blood.... Doesn't look like any major damage to the head, etc.