Interesting Photo

[roundshot]

Re: Interesting Photo

Well, he is at least equipped as infantry. But it was not uncommon for artillery drivers and other battery supernumeraries to be armed as infantry when the guns were in static positions. There are frequent references to this practice along the Richmond-Petersburg lines in the OR's.

Bob Williams

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Interesting Photo

Well, he is at least equipped as infantry. But it was not uncommon for artillery drivers and other battery supernumeraries to be armed as infantry when the guns were in static positions. There are frequent references to this practice along the Richmond-Petersburg lines in the OR's.

Bob Williams

Bob

Do you think you could post your findings?

Thanks

[roundshot]

Re: Interesting Photo

A quick quote from Napier Bartlett's Military Record of Louisiana, p. 210:

"Oct. 12 [1864]. One half our artillery drivers are armed with muskets, to [be] put on duty at Ft. Gregg. Our supernumeraries will help in the same way, defend the lines if attacked."

The above refers to the famed Washington Artillery of NO.
Vol 42 , Pts 2 & 3of the ORs also has stuff, but I don't have the time to dig up right now. Hope this helps.

Bob Williams

[pipthelimey]

Re: Interesting Photo

[QUOTE=dusty27]Do you guys think the the foreground guy's pants are undone because of the "looking for my wound" thing or as part of the looting? With all the apparent blood on this guy's head/face, might he have been shot in the head? If so, what would explain the pants?

Any kind of chest wound is likely going to cause some blood seepage from the mouth post mortem. Also, a minor head wound might have caused the blood on the face, but another wound killed him. As for the pants, what about the possibility that:
1) someone took a money belt off of him?
2) needed a civilian belt that he was wearing?
3) needed to loosen the pants to get in the pockets?

Dangit, I take a break from looking at autopsy photos at work, and I am looking at dead people on my lunch break....

Andrew Jerram
GVB adjutant,
53rd Georgia
Falling in with various and asundry other folks...

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Interesting Photo

In examining this picture again and again, my pard and I noticed something different about the picture...not to contradict what has been thought...but looking at the man in the foregaound, there are in fact still buttons on his jacket. In fact you can see the upper edge of these buttons as well as the shadow from the sun. "Hireddutchcuthroat" (a.k.a. Robert Johnson) posted blowups, which show this more clearly. I could not tell about the buttons on the trousers (which possibly could have burst off under stress "ripping open trousers??"). But I feel firmly that you can still see buttons on the jacket.

Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04

[2MDF&D]

Re: Interesting Photo

The background unfortunate indeed does have a set of checked/plaid trousers stuck into his boots...when you open the tiff it is very clear....

I have to disagree with the checked pants theory. If you look close the trousers don't have a check pattern from about the knee up. What's happened is the photo has a blemish of some kind that happened over the many years after, possibly. The check pattern is evident just above the top of his boot against the backround.

Rob McFarland
2MD Fifes and Drums

[JWolf]

Re: Interesting Photo

In looking at the pictures I found it interesting that I couldn't see either a belt or belt buckle from either view. Especially considering that from the "right" view we see the cartridge box and from the "left" view we see the tip of a bayonet scabbard. Also no cap box- unless I missed those items.

With the way the trousers and jacket are opened if the belt was unbuckled or cut open I would think that at least some the belt would be visible.

Artillery batterys, on paper, were supposed to have 50+ superinumaries (extra privates) that were under command of one of the junior Lt.'s to be used as replacements on the guns, infantry to guard camp/the horses, go foraging, etc.. Or, as mentioned earlier they could have been converted to line infantry if the battery lost their cannon on that last campaign.

Any thoughts about the absence, or at least why it is hidden from sight, for the belt and belt buckle?

Jim Wolf

[10TnVI]

Re: Interesting Photo

A close look at the trousers above the knee shows an apparent subdued plaid like pattern. The blemish below the knee is a fingerprint on the negitive,might even be the photographers.

The background unfortunate indeed does have a set of checked/plaid trousers stuck into his boots...when you open the tiff it is very clear....

I have to disagree with the checked pants theory. If you look close the trousers don't have a check pattern from about the knee up. What's happened is the photo has a blemish of some kind that happened over the many years after, possibly. The check pattern is evident just above the top of his boot against the backround.

Rob McFarland
2MD Fifes and Drums

[Dreamer42]

Re: Interesting Photo

Greetings to all. One thing I have learned through this forum is to examine images with a greated respect for detail. As it is, I find myself sifting through previously viewed photos trying to discover new information.
In looking at the shade comparisons in this photo, I believe the poor lad in the foreground is without socks. The portion of his trousers pulled up appears to reveal a bare leg. Interesting if he had to endure the hardships of war without even the slightest comforts.
In respect to the two different angle views of this scene, I believe he was killed, or at least at some point, suffered a head wound. Behind his ear on the back of the neck appears to be an exit wound, while the other view shows what appears to be an entry wound, caused by some minie ball, at his forehead.

Jay Reid
9th Texas

[maineman]

Re: Interesting Photo

Sorry, I don't have my Frasso in front of me. Didn't catch that, thanks... Then Roche is off! :D

As to the 'black' guy, I doubt that we can make a firm statement on that, it is all conjecture without a clearer photo, although his hair on the tiff looks pretty straight...and he looks more dirty than dark.

Lets not forget what discoloration a DB goes thru even in 24 hours.

[maineman]

Re: Interesting Photo

Was it as common in the Confederate forces as it was in Federal, that artillery units ,especially the "heavies" were cross trained as Infantry? Remember the 1st Maine Heavies.

[Rebel Yell1863]

Re: Interesting Photo

We know that towards the end of the conflict artillery units were converted to infantry units, such as with the Second Company of Richmond Howitzer's at Sailor's Creek, etc.

Also, I would not second guess the original notation on the photograph as you have considering that there is some provenance for Tait jackets with Red trim.

In addition, I would not be hasty in ruling out the second remains as those being from a person of color.

I agree with this assessment of the pic.

[BobbyHughes]

Re: Interesting Photo

Not for certain as to where they were, and cant get to my OR's right now, but is it at all possible that ( at least the poor chap in the foreground) these honored dead may have been part of Crutchfield's Heavy Arty Brigade???

[roundshot]

Re: Interesting Photo

No. Crutchfield's retreated from the lines around Richmond and Howletts. Batteries "A" & "B" of the Sumter (Georgia) Flying artillery were manning Ft. Mahone and Battery 27 at the time of the April 2nd assault. Then again, this may be an infantryman wearing an arty jacket. If so, he is likely a Tar Heel or an Alabamian.

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Interesting Photo

I believe, and this is just my opinion, that the man in the backround is an African American. Maybe he has plaid trousers maybe he doesn't, either way I'm convinced he's black! I also do not believe that he's even dead, just look at the rather "neat" appearance of his clothes, the fact that his vest has little soiling on the front of it, in contrast to the dead Confederate. And forgive me, but what Federal soldier is going to leave nice boots like those on a dead black man? I mean, they ripped off the other man's coat and trouser buttons! He is also quite skinny and looks like he simply laid down for the picture, rather than falling dead to the ground or struggling before death came over him. I also think that if this "was" really a dead African American Confederate there would have been some commentary on this with the picture. If he wasn't African American and was a dead Confederate and was wearing plaid trousers, how come I don't see any other pictures of Confederates around Petersburg wearing plaid pants, and once again, nice boots? Not saying Confederates didn't wear boots, but what Yankees going to leave a dead sesh with them?

All signs, to me, point to him being an African American who simply took part in a "fun" picture, who may or may not be wearing plaid pants. Just my 2 cents.:)

Weren't Union grave diggers generally African American? And isn't that when they generally let photographers have free reign on the battlefield, after the Federal dead had been buried and before the Confederates did? So couldn't he have been one of the grave diggers? Think about it?