Interesting Photo

[Moonshine]

Re: Interesting Photo

Keep in mind too that the shiny thing on his left hip appears to be a haversack. I used this same image to take an old gum blanket to make a haversack of by simply cutting the gum blanket into a strip and tacking the sides. On the closeup of his face, look at the bag and you'll see one button on one end, and the thread from where the other was. If he was artillery, I can understand using the cartridge box for primers, and a canteen to draw water from but to wear a haversack AND canteen plus cartridge box while working artillery... I'm not sure. My feeling is infantry for this guy.

Jim Ross

[RyanBWeddle]

Re: Interesting Photo

"why did infantryman have red trimmed jacket?"

Because red faced Tait jackets were likely issued to anyone ... B.S. Pendleton's Tait was red faced, and he served in the 2nd VA Inf.

Check out Daley's blurb on them:

http://www.cjdaley.com/redtaitjackets.htm

[blue steel]

Re: Interesting Photo

For consideration,

It appears, in my most humble opinion, that the gentleman in the foreground sustained a wound to the back of the neck. His body was then rolled over. Notice at the nape of the neck in the photo (original post). There appears to be a jagged section just below the hairline on the neck. In that photo it appears that the blood has run from the back of the neck to the face. Also on the face there appears to be different colored blood that would come from dust and dirt sticking to the face. Someone then came along and kicked the body over (it may have been posed for the picture). In both pictures of the corpse there is an absence of blood on the hands. Had a wounding blow hit the lad he would have reached into it to check the severity. I believe that the lad was struck mortally in the back of the neck/head, fell face first into the dirt, and was later moved. Of course this is just my opinion, and everybody has their fair share of those. To the earlier post, I too have seen the modern battlefield and it is strange, the things that happen to the wounded as they die. This is my first post here so don’t rip me too bad.

Humbly,
Christopher D.M. Helvey

[markj]

Re: Interesting Photo

Greetings,

This thread is veering into the gruesome, but nevertheless fascinating, question of human post-mortem decomposition. Bodies decompose at varying rates depending on physical size, climactic conditions, etc. These men were apparently KIA only the day prior to their being photographed but, in the case of the "black" man shown in the background, this may have been sufficient time for his features to considerly darken from the effects of livor mortis (settling of blood and body fluids) and rapid decomposition. It may also bear noting that surgeons who attended Abraham Lincoln, after his shooting, noted that a large section of his face was severely blackened from the effects of his cranial GSW.

Another intriguing piece of evidence was the noting of "dead Negroes in the rebel uniform" at Missionary Ridge by a member of the 10th Indiana in a December 1863 letter home. These "Negroes" were, as likely as not, white Confederates whose features had been distorted by the efforts of decomposition.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[marlin teat]

Re: Interesting Photo

Greetings,

This thread is veering into the gruesome, but nevertheless fascinating, question of human post-mortem decomposition. Bodies decompose at varying rates depending on physical size, climactic conditions, etc. These men were apparently KIA only the day prior to their being photographed but, in the case of the "black" man shown in the background, this may have been sufficient time for his features to considerly darken from the effects of livor mortis (settling of blood and body fluids) and rapid decomposition. It may also bear noting that surgeons who attended Abraham Lincoln, after his shooting, noted that a large section of his face was severely blackened from the effects of his cranial GSW.

Another intriguing piece of evidence was the noting of "dead Negroes in the rebel uniform" at Missionary Ridge by a member of the 10th Indiana in a December 1863 letter home. These "Negroes" were, as likely as not, white Confederates whose features had been distorted by the efforts of decomposition.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

Re: darkening of features after death. I found this interesting quote from a Confederate soldier....

"I saw 27 dead yankees lying in one place near Salem Church, where they had a fight the same day or day before they charged I think a South Carolina Regiment, and got the worst of it. They were German that were killed, they had turned completely black, caused by mean whiskey I suppose, for the Yanks gave their men plenty of whiskey."

[Dignann]

Re: Interesting Photo

Roche took at least twenty two photos of dead Confederates, these three along with at least nineteen others, in and around Fort Mahone. All were taken April 3, 1865, the day following the Union attack. So who was in the area, and who might these Confederates be?

The 53rd North Carolina was stationed in the works adjacent to the fort and according to Hampden Osborne of that regiment:

"The batteries of Fort Mahone were at that time supported by the 3d Alabama Regiment..."
- Hampden Osborne. "The Struggle for Fort Mahone." Confederate Veteran , Vol. XXV, No. 5 (May 1917) p.227

However, Paul J. Rast of the 3rd Alabama disagreed and wrote:

"The Alabamians in Fort Mahone were, no doubt, the 61st [Regiment]..."
- P.J. Rast. "Fort Mahone and Other Struggles." Confederate Veteran , Vol. XXV, No. 8 (August 1917) p. 355

Perhaps these men were Alabamians or North Carolinians.

Eric

[blue steel]

Re: Interesting Photo

Also,

There seems to be a lot of talk on whether or not the other lad is black or not. To the theory that he has turned black due to normal decomposition, I must say I think not. Simply, had he already started to turn black due to the pooling and clotting of blood around the skin, would he not, by this time, be bloated? Just a thought.

Humbly,
Christopher D.M. Helvey

[SCSecesh]

Re: Interesting Photo

I'm not convinced the gentleman in the background has on "checked" trousers! If the area just above the boot leads you to that decision look down in the dirt below and you'll see the same pattern as if it was on the plate when the image was printed (or struck). They don't appear to have the same pattern farther up the leg either.
As to the poor lad in the foreground, it does appear that there is a rather large wound in the back of his head.

Someone should tell the young man in the foreground that the hat he has lying near him in the second photo is a "hillbilly" hat and won't be allowed at the "in" events!

God rest their souls!

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Interesting Photo

Some thoughts on this photo.

I think the clothes are ripped open by looters rather than by the man in the photo, because he has recieved massive head trauma. You can see an major amount of damage to his face and the base of his neck. It stands to reason, he would probably not be looking for a wound if he was killed instantly.

Both bodies have obviously been looted. During the looting process I feel the jacket and trousers were ripped open by the looter causing the loss of the buttons.

You may also note the epaultes have been removed from the jacket.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Interesting Photo

The elongated mandible of the rear figure appears* to be negroid. I used the Application & Role of Athropological Research in the Practice of Forensic Medicine Analysis Software.

*not conclusive without actual mandible.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Interesting Photo

The elongated mandible of the rear figure is negroid. From the Application & Role of Athropological Research in the Practice of Forensic Medicine.

Wow great post! That may be the reason the caption said it was Conferderate and Federal casualties. Now, was he a servant, a black Confederate, or a USCT with civilan pants? :confused_

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Interesting Photo

How similar are the rear figure's boots to those seen in Jason Wickersty's image posted in the undershirts thread, Authenticity Discussion? (Post #27, forth guy from the left.)

[BHoover]

Re: Interesting Photo

Someone should tell the young man in the foreground that the hat he has lying near him in the second photo is a "hillbilly" hat and won't be allowed at the "in" events!

David, I had the same thought but then figured that it probably wasn't his fault as the hat could have been placed there by the photographer to make a "more authentic" picture! :wink_smil

[BHoover]

Re: Interesting Photo

I'm not convinced the gentleman in the background has on "checked" trousers! If the area just above the boot leads you to that decision look down in the dirt below and you'll see the same pattern as if it was on the plate when the image was printed (or struck).

Good point. But it's still not clear to me either way. If you look at image 02550u.tif then I see exactly what you mean. However, if you look at 02551u.tif the markings in the dirt (below the knee) are much less pronounced, and the "checks" on the upper leg seem more definite.

[Masich]

Re: Interesting Photo

Here's a cynic's interpretation for you:

the clean, unwounded guy, with boots too nice to have been missed by looters of any army, in the background (near the photograher's wagon mule) is the photographer's assistant who has "volunteered" to enhance the photo of the dead rebel, who has been neatly decked out with prop box and canteen (which looks completely out of place, especially with its broken strap visible).

Andy

Dusty,

The photograph was taken April 3, 1865 by Thomas C. Roche, who was working for the E. & H.T. Anthony Company, one of the largest publishers of photographic images during the Civil War.

According to William Frassanito's Grant and Lee: The Virginia Campaigns 1864-1865 (1983), p. 360, the original caption for this image was:

"Rebel artillery soliders, killed in the trenches of fort Mahone, called by the soldiers 'fort Damnation,' at the storming of Petersburgh, Va., April 2nd, 1865. The one in the foreground has U.S. belts on, probably taken from a Union soldier prisoner; his uniform is grey cloth trimmed with red. This view was taken the morning after the storming of Petersburgh, Va. 1865."

Frassanito believes that the sponge rammer is a prop added for effect, since it does not show in other variant views.

Eric