What the heck happened to these guys?

[hireddutchcutthroat]

5th Regiment, United States Colored Heavy Artillery

Lost during service 4 Officers and 124 Enlisted men killed and mortally wounded and 697 Enlisted men by disease. Total 829.


697 men to disease! Did they get nailed by a cholera epidemic or something?

[DougCooper]

Re: What the heck happened to these guys?

Bob - the death by disease % was higher as a rule among USCT units (Fox's) - a full 20.5% of all colored troops died in the war, the vast majority by disease (29,658 or 16.6%). White troops died at about 10% rate due to disease. This regiment looks to be an extreme case - somewhere between 25-29% (remember that a HA unit had a nominal strength of 2400) but the 65th USCT (regular volunteer regiment) suffered a horrible 755 deaths to disease, a rate of somewhere around 70%!!!

The 15th Maine regt was one particularly hard hit by disease, as was the 7th Vermont, both of the 19th Corps which suffered terribly in the Gulf of disease. Often, discipline translated to health as well. Environment, cleanliness, movement (static was sometimes worse), etc were all factors, as was the oft cited rural vs city disease rate, often hgiher among more rural troops who were not exposed to some diseases that the city boys were, and hence had not built up an immunty.

The Civil War was fought at that precise moment in history where the ability of weapons and disease to kill or hurt you was at it's most inversely proportional to the ability of doctors to fix you in the history of warfare. 5 years after the war ended we had sulpha (anti-biotic and the discovery of germs). A few years before and we had mostly smooth bore weapons and no high explosive shells.

Very bad timing for an entire generation of Americans.

A number I use in school presentation that get's people's attendion is: If we suffered the same casualty rate (1 in 5 soldiers died in the CW) today, a war would cost us 6.4 million dead of the 30 million who would have served in 300,000,000 current US population.

[Alamo Guard]

Re: What the heck happened to these guys?

Doug,
The 15th Maine spent alot of time in Florida. While there they were ordered to defend Pensacola Florida. They were basically ordered to defend the navel yard while in the swamp. The reg't surg., at this time was courtmarshalled and dismissed due to his lack of actions and fondness for the bottle. He was replaced by a New York man, conditons improved and cases of sickness fell 80 percent in one month. On a sidenote while evacuating by ship, the reg't quartermaster fell off the ship to the pier below shattering his leg. Truly a hard luck reg't. Although they did serve longer than any other reg't from Maine and also served as provost guards during the two day grand review after the war in Washington.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: What the heck happened to these guys?

5th Regiment, United States Colored Heavy Artillery

Lost during service 4 Officers and 124 Enlisted men killed and mortally wounded and 697 Enlisted men by disease. Total 829.


697 men to disease! Did they get nailed by a cholera epidemic or something?

Yellow fever? It hit the Carolinas and Tidewater Va HARD. Where was the 5th Mustered?

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: What the heck happened to these guys?

Here are the top five highest total US unit losses;

5th US Colored Heavy Artillery 829
65th US Colored Infantry 755
1st Maine Heavy Artillery 683
56th US Colored Infantry 674
7th New York Heavy Artillery 669

I dont think the 65th USCT even heard a shot in anger.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: What the heck happened to these guys?

Yellow fever? It hit the Carolinas and Tidewater Va HARD. Where was the 5th Mustered?

5th Regiment, United States Colored Heavy Artillery


Organized from 1st Mississippi Heavy Artillery (African Descent). Designated 4th Heavy Artillery March 11, 1864, and 5th Heavy Artillery April 26, 1864. Attached to 1st Division, United States Colored Troops, District of Vicksburg, Miss., to February, 1865. Unattached, Post of Vicksburg, Dept. of Mississippi, and Dept. of the Gulf to May, 1864.

SERVICE.-Garrison duty at Vicksburg, Miss., till May, 1866. Expedition from Vicksburg to Rodney and Fayette September 29-October 3, 1864. Expedition from Vicksburg to Yazoo City November 23-December 4, 1864. Mustered out May 20, 1866.

Lost during service 4 Officers and 124 Enlisted men killed and mortally wounded and 697 Enlisted men by disease. Total 829.

The took some pretty hefty combat losses as well. More in fact than alot of white infantry units that saw some of the biggest clashes of the war.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: What the heck happened to these guys?

65th Regiment, United States Colored Infantry


Organized March 11, 1864, from 2nd Missouri Colored Infantry. Attached to Dept. of Missouri to June, 1864. Provisional Brigade, District of Morganza, La., Dept. of the Gulf, to September, 1864. 2nd Brigade, 1st Division, United States Colored Troops, District of Morganza, Dept. of the Gulf, to February, 1865. 1st Brigade, 1st Division, United States Colored Troops, District of Morganza, La., Dept. of the Gulf, to May, 1865. Northern District of Louisiana and Dept. of the Gulf to January, 1867.

SERVICE.-Garrison duty at Morganza, La., till May, 1865. Ordered to Port Hudson, La. Garrison duty there and at Baton Rouge and in Northern District of Louisiana till January, 1867. Mustered out January 8, 1867.

Regiment lost during service 6 Officers and 749 Enlisted men by disease.

[Bill Cross]

Talk about FATIGUE duty....

One of the points made in the exhibit catalog for the exhibit currently at the Yale rare book library (see my post elsewhere in this section) is that Colored Troops were worked all the time, and the result was death and sickness. One of the knocks on USCTs was that they couldn't drill worth a damn and so were looked down on as inferior soldiers. If it's true they weren't well-drilled, it was because they spent most of their time doing the work that was considered "beneath" what a white man should do. The forces designated to attack the Crater, for example, spent virtually no time drilling or preparing, instead they were building earthworks. Then at the last moment, they were pulled from the honor of leading the attack because General Meade believed they weren't prepared!

There was also the persistent belief among whites that blacks were "tempermentally" better-suited to life in the tropics and therefore somehow immune to malaria, yellow fever and other "agues and miasmas." USCT units were usually assigned to the malarial regions with predictable results. Even among units made up of former slaves and field hands from the South, the conditions were guaranteed to produce death and sickness, and they did.

[RJSamp]

Numbers Doug?

"A number I use in school presentation that get's people's attendion is: If we suffered the same casualty rate (1 in 5 soldiers died in the CW) today, a war would cost us 6.4 million dead of the 30 million who would have served in 300,000,000 current US population."

Do you know where to get these numbers? Top of the head numbers being what they are I usually cite:
190,000 KIA
450,000 Died of Disease
640,000 total dead
4.5 Million in service.

I think (again top of head) that total dead is closer to 690,000. Maybe my 4.5 Million served is way out of line.

Even so, your 1 : 5 ratio of dead to served seems high to me.....

If you know a quick web source so I can steer the 7th graders correctly I would appreciate it.

Thanks!!!

RJ Samp

[DougCooper]

Re: What the heck happened to these guys?

RJ - I use 3 million in the ranks vice 4.5 million (we match on every thing else). The numbers I saw came from the American Heritage History of the war - 2 million + yanks and a little under 1 million rebs. That is 1.1 in 10 northerners and about 1 in 7 white southerners. Total US population about 31 million of all races (20 million north, 11 million south (7 million white, 4 million black).

That is an old publication though...what do you use?

[NY Pvt]

Re: Talk about FATIGUE duty....

There was also the persistent belief among whites that blacks were "tempermentally" better-suited to life in the tropics and therefore somehow immune to malaria, yellow fever and other "agues and miasmas." USCT units were usually assigned to the malarial regions with predictable results. Even among units made up of former slaves and field hands from the South, the conditions were guaranteed to produce death and sickness, and they did.

Bill,

This is partially true. Sickle cell anemia, which is sometimes found in people of African decent, prevents malaria. While I am sure some black troops who had this disease were saved from the affects of malaria, there was many other diseases that could have killed them if they survived the malaria.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: What the heck happened to these guys?

Dane

I dont know anything about the sickelcell and when it was discovered, but I would think in 19th century thought (what some today may see as racist thinking) that since the black troops were born and raised in the south and there ancestors came from a tropical climate, that they would be better suited to the region than say a soldier from Michigan. When in fact they were just as if not more isolated to childhood diseases, as their northern (and southern) white bretheren.

[NY Pvt]

Re: What the heck happened to these guys?

Robert,
I agree that those people who felt blacks were better suited for the southern regions of the war was due to the time their ancestors spent in the south and tropical regions of Africa. They wouldn’t have known about sickle cell back in the 1860’s since most of what we know about it today has came from the last half of the 20th century. Sickle cell was formed in Africa long ago as a natural defense against malaria. Since those who had it lived to reproduce, it began to spread throughout black populations. What I am trying to say is those “racist ideas” in the 1860’s have been some what proven to a certain extent through science.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: What the heck happened to these guys?

Dane

I "caught your drift", I just dont know anything about science. I maybe thought you did :confused_

So, "SCA" was discovered in the 20th century?