What can you tell me about my original 1863 Enfield?

[maillemaker]

Hi All,

I purchased this original 1863 Enfield off of Auction Arms a few weeks ago. I don't know a lot about these muskets but for the price ($800) it seemed to be in better shape than many originals I had seen. I took a chance on it.

Unfortunately, it has no rifling. It's bore is completely smooth and measures out at about .67". There are a couple of "sanskrit" characters stamped on the ram rod and on the butt plate. Not sure if this matters but the outside diameter of the muzzle is larger than my Euroarms repro.

The lock plate is stamped 1863 but the barrel is 1865.

I took a lot of pictures, including using a digital microscope, and put them on my web site here:

http://www.forth-armoury.com/temp/1853/1863/1863_enfield.htm

I'd love to know what you all make of it.

Thanks,

Steve Sheldon

[Enfield]

Re: What can you tell me about my original 1863 Enfield?

Steve,

I'm afraid this probably won't be good news ...

What you have is either what is now called a "Khyber Pass Special," or one of the post-Mutiny "Enfields" made for Native regiments. Neither of these could have any ACW use.

At first look, I thought it was one of the Native Infantry muskets, a P1861, I think (I'm writing this off the top of my head, because I don't have the needed references right here to hand). This was a series of smoothbore muskets, .656 caliber, made after the Indian Mutiny to arm the Native regiments, so that their arms would be inferior to those of the British units in India (at the beginning of the Mutiny, most British units in India still had smoothbore P1842 muskets, while many of the Native regiments had brand-new P1853 Enfields). The muzzles are noticeably larger than P53 muzzles (P53 bayonets will not fit).

However, these all had fixed rear sights, not elevating rear sights like on yours.

What makes me think yours may be a "Khyber Pass Special" is particularly the poor quality of the lockplate markings. The RSAF (Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield Lock) used finely engraved lockplate markings, not poorly done stamps like this. This sort of stamping is a hallmark of the "KP Specials" - that is, guns that have been assembled from various parts - some actually of British manufacture and some of local manufacture - in the old Northwest Frontier of India, around the Khyber Pass (now Pakistan and Afghanistan). This type of gun is commonly sold in the bazaars in Afghanistan to US soldiers on deployment, and many hundreds have come into the US this way over the past few years. The Asian markings indicate this sort of history for the gun as well (and the price you paid is in line with this type).

The stock appears genuine British (RSAF). The barrel appears to be as well, although someone added that long range rear sight, if this barrel is indeed a .656 Native Infantry musket barrel. The lockplate does have correct RSAF-Enfield inspector marks on the inside, but it definitely did not come out of the RSAF with exterior markings like that - those were added later to a lockplate that had been ground off on the face, or never marked for some reason.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Geoff Walden

[ScottCross]

Re: What can you tell me about my original 1863 Enfield?

A cache of these and other British small arms were found in an old armory in India a few years ago and flooded the American market recently.

[Third Mainer]

Re: What can you tell me about my original 1863 Enfield?

This is niether Khyber Pass or Nepalise. The gun is of British make, just post war. The lockplate stampings are correct for these post war guns. May have seen Nepalise service, but this gun is above and beyond the ones dug out of the palace of Lagan Silekhana. I agree that its a nice example of the 65 Patt 1859 Enfield 3 Band Native Infantry Musket, that someone swapped out the fixed sight for the adjustable one. Usually, the dead giveaway on the Khybers is the backwards "N" in Enfield, and the fact that the lock stamps are done with individual letter stamps, rather than one.
Mike Pearson

[maillemaker]

Re: What can you tell me about my original 1863 Enfield?

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I measured the inside of the muzzle with some dial calipers and it comes out to about .67". I'm guessing this is perhaps a .69 caliber arm?

I had some folks instruct me about the "Indian Mutiny" muskets, and they thought this might be one, but not only did they appear to have fixed rear sights but they had an odd, "house shaped" front sight as well. This one seems to have correct P53 sights front and rear (though the leaf on the rear sight is a modern replacement - obviously cast you can see the ejector pin marks on it).

I have also been told that the crossed pennons inspection mark on the barrel indicated a provisional proof?

The quality of the arm amazes me compared to my Euroarms musket, even though it is 148 years old. The barrel bands are much smoother, there is no catch on your hand from the and or the clamps screw as you run your hand over the belly of the gun as there is with the Eurarms. The fit of the metal to the wood is extremely precise, unlike the Euroarms.

I've love to hang onto this guy for a wall hanger but I think I'm going to pass it on. I've just started shooting N-SSA competition and need clothes and accouterments and such, and this can help fund it.

[maillemaker]

Re: What can you tell me about my original 1863 Enfield?

I agree that its a nice example of the 65 Patt 1859 Enfield 3 Band Native Infantry Musket, that someone swapped out the fixed sight for the adjustable one.

I did a google on "65 Patt 1859 Enfield 3 Band Native Infantry Musket" and found this:

http://www.northirishmilitaria.com/moreinfo.asp?id=213

This has the "crippled" rear AND front site that I was talking about.

If the sights were replaced on this barrel, they did a fine job of it as there is no trace of the original location. My first thought was perhaps the whole barrel was replaced with a P53 barrel, but then why would it still be smooth bore?

Steve

[ACo.]

Re: What can you tell me about my original 1863 Enfield?

Steve, you have a very interesting P53 Rifle Musket. For accurate information on British military firearms, see:

http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/

Click on the "British Flint and Percussion Arms" forum and read there. It would be a good use of your excellent photographs to join and post about your musket there, Bill Curtis and several other members will be able to give you accurate information about this rifle musket that, for some reason or other, was later reamed from .577 caliber to it's current state.

You do not have a so called "Khyber Pass Special", you have a genuine British made P53 though it is a late pattern using the last style bands and it is a type never imported to North America for use during our Civil War.

The markings are not "Sanskrit", they are Nepalese showing that somehow this rifle musket did make it to Nepal. This is unusual since Nepal by that time was producing their own version of the P53 (copies of the British 1st Pattern with rifling) and doing it quite well for what at that time was what we currently call a "third world" country. The so called "Nepal Cache" guns have not flooded the US market, they are actually quite scarce and will eventually rise in value, you did reasonably well purchasing this one.

[maillemaker]

Re: What can you tell me about my original 1863 Enfield?

Thanks Thomas, I have posted over on the britishmilitariaforums.

Steve

[maillemaker]

Re: What can you tell me about my original 1863 Enfield?

FYI I have paid to become a charter member and have posted this musket for sale in the Want To Sell forums.

Edit: The moderators have decided that this musket does not constitute an item of the Civil War period or could have been used during the Civil War, so it is no longer listed for sale here. You can find it on Gunsamerica if interested, or you can send me a private message.

Steve