Blue Confederate Trousers

[Mississippian]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

I've seen records of the 6th Mississippi being issued "Blue Cottonade Pants" in July of 1862. And It seems blue trousers were issued in large numbers to Confederate troops serving in Mississippi during the fall of 1862.

And about Federal Trousers, Why is it always about the sky blues? I've never seen a Confederate reenactor with a pair of captured DARK blue Federal trousers.....just saying. :tounge_sm

Will MacDonald

[dixieflyer]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Egg-zactly Bob W. and to Bob B. I would counter that a "snapshot" might have many or none at all dependent upon time and place. However, I completely understand Bob B.'s guiding principle, and in the past I eschewed Federal clothing for the same reason.
I do not think one can categorically dismiss the paintings of veterans such as Alan Redwood, Julian Scott, etc. They painted what they did for a reason. However, it deserves more thought and investigation.

[csuniforms]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

I believe the two are Marylanders in the Redwood painting. The Marylanders remebered as one of the units that tried to keep their dress as uniform as possible all through the War. The RD2 and the blue trousers are Richmond Depot probably made of imported English wool. Remember Longstreets entire Corp was dressed like this when they Richmond for Tennessee.

CSuniforms
Tom Arliskas

[dixieflyer]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Will, FWIW I have seen that, but it was a looooong time ago. ;)

[rmilstead]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

A little grist for the mill. I have come to the opinion that royal or Dark Sky Blue Confederate Trousers are under represented in the hobby because of the tendency to lump all Blue trousers into the argument about use of Federal Sky Blue by Rebels. While a very imprecise measure I took some time to cull through the examples listed in the Catalog of the MOC collection to see what appears in that representative sample. There are 21 trousers listed, 10 officers, 9 enlisted and 2 which while worn by officers were, in fact, English imports (S. Issacs & Campbell markings) and probably also issued to enlisted men. Roughly the break down of color is as follows: Officers – 6/10 Blue, 1/10 Brown, and 3/10 Gray; and Enlisted including the imports- 4/11 Blue; Brown 3/11, and gray 4/11. Now I realize that this is a small sample and most likely late war but nearly half of the total is either Royal or Dark Sky Blue! More significant is that both English imports are of Dark Sky Blue and the two enlisted trousers in Dark Sky Blue (Kersey) are the Brooke and Redwood trousers that are generally regarded as having been made at or at least issued through the Richmond Depot. Officers gear being Tailor made could possibly be allowed a variance but the percentage of Enlisted/Import is still significant. This perhaps doesn’t prove anything but is some food for thought.
Richard Milstead
Hardaway’s Alabama Battery (N-SSA)
The Company of Military Historians

[BShajari]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Texas regiments, early in the war, were equipped with Federal uniforms after they captured the US Army supply depot in San Antonio in February 1861.

[Milliron]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

I hasten to add that my opinion is limited to use of Federal issue trousers by Confederates. Warren is right that depending on the circumstances, you might see a lot of them (action by the AoT following the battle at Richmond, KY comes to mind), however I think that's the exception, not the rule. I DO think the wearing of blue trousers by Confederates in underrepresented, either royal blue, blue-grey kersey or blue wool or cotton jean.

[dixieflyer]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

All right, that does it! All of this has me jonesing for a pair of blue jean trousers!

[roundshot]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

I uncovered this quote on the subject from the website of an English based Civil War Living History group portraying a Virginia unit. Interesting perspective by our overseas cousins:

"The ban on the wearing of Federal clothing by authentic Confederate re-enactment units in the States is somewhat puzzling. The most likely reason for it is that the wearing of sky blue kerseys is common practice amongst mainstream re-enactors. These trousers tend to be bought off the shelf from manufacturers like C & D Jarnagin and are cut far too low at the back of the waist. When worn with a shell jacket they leave a gap between the trousers and the jacket and look faintly ridiculous. The simplest way for a hard-core re-enactment unit to differentiate itself from such farbs is to ban sky blue trousers. In effect, the units are being colour coded. Regrettably this may be telling us more about the elitist attitudes of American hard-cores than it does about the appearance of the Army of Northern Virginia."

[J.H. Moore]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Authenticity is what we're shooting for right? Of course. In my opinion, you'll never be able to achieve an absolutely perfect impression.

The best anyone can ask for, is that folks would spend the time and research the units they wish to represent. Even though documentation exsists that proves a unit wore blue trousers, regardless of shade or pattern, it doesn't mean they were worn throughout the whole war. One must take their research forward and pay attention to the time frame and the engagements fought during those times. The Civil War is not really open to all that much interpretation. It's history and pretty well documented. If you're going to a reenactment, you should wear a uniform that is appropriate for that respective time in the war for your respective unit. If you're not re-creating a specific engagement, then atleast get your unit on the same page with a time frame.

I'm sure that I'm not saying anything y'all don't already know and I realize that some folks have deeper pockets than others. I guess that's why there's "mainstreamers". At this time in my life, I can and am willing to assemble several uniforms that would appropriately cover most of the war. As the war is "just starting", I am starting with my unit's initial issue, as it seems logical. I'm new to CW impressions, but I hope I'm on the right track.

[Peachfuz]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

From "Reminiscenes of the War of 1861-1865 by Phip F. Brown Company "C" 12th Virginia Infantry of Mahone's Brigade."
Brown was wounded at South Moutain in '62 and was taken to a private residance to recover.

"The latter part of October I bade farewell to my kind protectors, and went to the provost marshall's office for my parole. In company with about eight other Confederates of different commands, none of whom I knew, we were taken in a farm wagon, the body of which was filled with straw, to Frederick City. There we were joined by a number of prisoners from other sections and placed in box cars, the conditions of which were so filthy that we could not sit down. Every one of us had been wounded, and had to stand, some on crutches, all the way to Baltimore, where I made two unsuccessful attempts to evade the guard in order to reach friends to whom I had letters of introduction. We were taken to Fort McHenry, and all of us were marched in "Indian file" to an office where our names and the regiments to which we belonged were registered.

From our entrance at the large gate, where we were formed in single file, to the office of registration, I observed a crowd of ten or more Yankee soldiers eyeing my uniform trousers. My sleeveless coat was left, as my only legacy, with kind Dr. Garrott, and I wore a citizen coat, into which I could only put my right arm, the left being in a sling. After our names were entered, ranks were broken, and we were at liberty to go about the grounds. As I walked off one of the party who had followed us from the entrance said, "Where did you get that pair of our sergeant's pants?" This made me very indignant, and I replied, in a defiant manner, that the material of which they were made, was manufactured at the Crenshaw Woolen Mills, Richmond, Va., and that before I would wear a pair of their vermin-infested sergeant's pants, I would go naked the rest of my life. "

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

In the latest issue of Blue Grey, there is an account of a soldier in 12th US Infantry who was involved in the counter attack on Myers Hill (May 14th 1864, Spotsylvania CH). "...and found a number of our men who had been wounded in the other charge--the dead bodies of volunteers who were killed and stripped naked by the rebs."

I'm not sure what other motivation a Confederate soldier would have in removing a pair of trousers from a dead or wounded yankee if not to wear them.

The Johnnies that the 12th helped drive off belonged to Wrights Ga. brigade. According to one Georgian who helped take the hill before being driven off "we got a fine lot of Yankee plunder such as knapsacks, haversacks filled with crackers, meat, sugar and coffee, rubber clothes, tents, etc."

There are some instances where Johnnies wearing US trousers is correct. However I agree with the above post that many of us (myself included) immediately associate CS use of Fed trousers with the whole "all you gotta do is buy all US stuff and then just change your jacket and your are set for CS" line of thought.

I'll have to dig it out, but I have another one from just after Fredericksburg of Confederates taking US issue trousers from wounded men.

[Horace]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

This from 'A Picture of the Desolated States' by John Trowbridge. The author did an extensive tour of the former Confederacy starting about a month after the war had ended. Here he's talking to a Confederate veteran of the battle of Fredericksburg:

(pg. 107)
"Every charge your troops made afterwards, it was the same. The infantry in the road, and the artillery on these Heights, just mowed them down in swaths! You never saw anything look as that plain did after the battle. Saturday morning, before the fight, it was brown ; Sunday it was all blue ; Monday it was white, and Tuesday it was red."
I asked him to explain this seeming riddle. " Don't you see ? Before the fight there was just the field. Next it was covered all over with your fellows in blue clothes. Saturday night the blue clothes were stripped off, and only their white under-clothes left. Monday night these were stripped off, and Tuesday they lay all in their naked skins." " Who stripped the dead in that way ? " " It was mostly done by the North Carolinians. They are the triflin'est set of men ! "

Later on in the tour, his guide tells him this:

(pg. 131)
" Ye see that apple-tree ? I got a right good pair o' pants off one o' your soldier's under that tree once."
"Was he dead?"
" Yes. He was one of Sedgwick's men ; he was killed when Sedgwick took the Heights. Shot through the head. The pants wa'n't hurt none." And putting spurs to his mule, he galloped ahead. .
I noticed that he and Richard, like many of the young men, white and black, I had seen about Fredericksburg, wore United States army trousers.
" Dey was all we could git one while," said Richard. " I reckon half our boys 'u'd have had to go widout pants if it had n't been for de Union army. Dar was right smart o' trad'n' done in Yankee clothes, last years o' de wa'."
" Did you rob a dead soldier of those you have on ? "
" No ; I bought dese in Fredericksburg. I never robbed a dead man."
" But how did you know they were not taken from a corpse ? "
" Mought be; but it could n't be ho'ped. A poo' man can't be choice."

His guide had not been in the army. It just seems to reinforce the idea that Federal trousers were being worn by men not in the Federal army.

None of this means that this was a common occurence, but apart from portraying one of the very few documented situations where a number of rebels were wearing federal issue, a pair of yankee trousers turning up on a Confederate who would have been in contact with them shouldn't be out of the question.

[guad42]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

That was some excellent excerpting there Mr. Bemis.

-Sam Dolan

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

"CLEAN RIFLE. Early in the morning our regiment was called out and sent to the front and ordered to find the enemy. Soon after we started, as I was picking my way from tree to tree, I noticed the body of a rebel officer....How I came to notice the affair was that my rifle was in bad shape and needed cleaning. I saw a rubber coat and thought that I might get a dry piece of cloth from under the rubber coat. The body was clothed in no less than three coats of cloth besides the rubber one, also three or more pairs of pants, and I concluded this officer wore all those clothes to give him a better appearance by looking more stocky. In getting cloth for cleaning my rifle I cut through three pairs of pants before I got a dry piece fit to use on my rifle. This piece was taken from a pair of U.S. Soldier's sky blue pants, and the rubber coat the colonel wore had the name and regiment of an officer of a New Jersey regiment stamped on the inside with stencil. I got my dry cloth out of his pants and left him alone in his glory..."

This is an excerpt from the great memoir "The Civil War Diary of Wyman S. White" who served in the 2nd U.S. Sharpshooters. Of course the confederate soldier was wearing Federal trousers UNDER several pairs of what I guess were CS trousers. He also mentions that in 1862 the pickets under his command were nearly captured by Confederates dressed in Federal uniforms.

There are also two original pairs of beautiful blue trousers in the Charleston Museum. I don't have permission to publish the photos but one pair is royal blue heavy kersey while the other is a light mixed blue light-weight kersey. The yarn used in the latter pair appears to be a blend using white and blue fibers. Both have artillery trim on the out seam and are well made with an interesting variety of lining materials. The light blue pair have brass buttons stamped "J.D. Carr & Co. Charleston, SC" while the royal blue pair have a variety of stippled or pebbled brass buttons.