Blue Confederate Trousers

[DBURT]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Thanks Gents, I was fortunate enough to have a close look at Pender's pants whilst researching; they were intended for an enlisted man, but Pender acquired them anyway. S Isaac Campbell & Co, had them made by one of their myriad of contractors, and as is stated in the article, there were 8,250 pairs that had been shipped by Feb 1863, with 13,750 pairs "waiting in London" for delivery. It looks like most of them were made from blue cloth. Also vast imports were made of all types of blue cloth, presumably to be made into trousers. It appears that the clothing depots tried, at least, to conform to regulations as much as possible, and Caleb Huse did his best to comply by sending over as much "blue" cloth and ready-made trousers as he could.

Dave Burt, England.

[Mike Ventura]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Wheeler's CS Cavalry, while picketing a long line from below Knoxville to Decatur, AL in the winter of 1863-1864, were reported by the Federals (documentation in the ORs) to be wearing Federal Uniforms captured on raids against the Federal supply lines.

[DBURT]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

I think the most important thing to remember is, if you do want to wear a pair of CS blue pants, have them made in the "Richmond Depot style". This will look like a pair that have been made at the RD from imported blue cloth from England.

Dave Burt, England.

[lwtaggart]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

A soldier of Longstreet's Corp when sent west later writes of his uniform,"Dark blue round jacket, closely fitting, with light blue trousers. Closely resembled those worn by the enemy." The jacket was described as a dark bluish gray.

George Taggart

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Fellows!

This thread has been good to follow. Thus far we know of the following surviving originals:

1. Dorsey Pender trousers. english made, blockade run. Probably part of the 8500 that came through. MW at G burg
2. TV Brooke trouser. richmond clothing bureau product, worn at Appomattox.
3. Alfred May trousers. imported cloth, similar to Brooke trousers. dated to the end of the war.
4. CD Carr trousers. in Chas. SC. I have one pic to share that is a close up of a button. I will post more about these when I get a couple emails answered.

accounts:
1. Longstreets corps at Chickamauga
2. the others in this thread.
3. 7th SC (copied below)

this is from Neill Rose:

Here's a quote from a letter from Ltc. D. Wyatt Aiken to Col. Bland (7th SC, the 2d's sister Regiment in Kershaws) while he was recuperating from wounds received in the Seven Days:

H'dts 7" SC Regt, Aug 19, 1862

From the last paragraph....

"I have nothing more of interest to write you. Our conscripts are tolerably well fixed for camp life; nicely equipped & when we get our new uniform, I think the old 7" will astonish her neighbors. We are having a uniform made in Rich at the Gov't rooms, dark steel mixed jacket with light blue pants. The pants are to be lined throughout with osnaburys. Both cloths are heavy & good, English manufacture. Some men in the Regt are opposed to it, but I have forbade the Qt Mast paying out a cent of clothing money, & hence they must come in. Kindest regards to Mrs. Bland. With wishes for your speedy return.

I am as ever,
Yrs truly
D. Wyatt Aiken

Fellows. we can now document the use of richmond pattern trousers made out of royal blue imported cloth from aug. of 62 to april of 65.

anyone else interested in a pair??

broberts804@yahoo.com

[IMG][/IMG]

[CSchneider]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Thus far we know of the following surviving originals:

1. Dorsey Pender trousers. english made, blockade run. Probably part of the 8500 that came through. MW at G burg
2. TV Brooke trouser. richmond clothing bureau product, worn at Appomattox.
3. Alfred May trousers. imported cloth, similar to Brooke trousers. dated to the end of the war.
4. CD Carr trousers. in Chas. SC. I have one pic to share that is a close up of a button. I will post more about these when I get a couple emails answered.

There are a few other pairs of royal blue kersey enlistedmen's pants at the MOC aside from those listed above--I can think of Goodwin, Redwood, and Rogers (not in the MOC uniform book) off the top of my head. I would note, however, that the T.V. Brooke trousers should not be on this list. Despite what is oft repeated, and what Echoes of Glory says, Brooke's trousers are nothing like the May trousers, nothing like typical Richmond trousers, nothing like any other surviving C.S. kersey trousers, not altered, and not of the same cloth. I hate to assume, but I would guess maybe a pair of chasseur trousers.

-Craig Schneider

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

There are a few other pairs of royal blue kersey enlistedmen's pants at the MOC aside from those listed above--I can think of Goodwin, Redwood, and Rogers (not in the MOC uniform book) off the top of my head. I would note, however, that the T.V. Brooke trousers should not be on this list. Despite what is oft repeated, and what Echoes of Glory says, Brooke's trousers are nothing like the May trousers, nothing like typical Richmond trousers, nothing like any other surviving C.S. kersey trousers, not altered, and not of the same cloth. I hate to assume, but I would guess maybe a pair of chasseur trousers.

-Craig Schneider

so even taking Brooke off the list, we are looking at a half dozen of these still around? In CS material culture, that is a rare thing.

[CSchneider]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Yup, and many pairs of officer trousers too, often broadcloth ranging in color from something similar to the royal blue seen in enlisted pants to bright, blinding electric blue (and enlisted pants ID'd to officers like the Pender pair). Definitely something we should represent quite often, especially for 1863-1865 ANV impressions.

-Craig Schneider

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

I also wanted to add a pair of royal blue trousers worn by 1st Lt. Robert S. Ellis of Co. C 56th Virginia Infantry. Ellis was killed at Gettysburg on July 3rd. A photograph of his cadet gray frock coat, royal blue trousers, black hat, and a trunk containing his personal effects can be found on pg. 424 of Time Life's "Brother Against Brother." The items are courtesy of Samuel P. Higginbotham II and the photo is by Larry Sherer.

[PaulJ]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Hi, this interesting thread has focused mainly on the ANV. Does anyone have any thoughts or information as regards the use of blue trousers in the AOT by way of comparison?

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Paul and all,
not much help on that AOT front (paging Lee White) but what say y'all about an entire reg't heading into Maryland with Marse Robert in '62 in royal blue trousers????

ask, and ye shall receive. courtesy of Neill Rose.

H'dts 7" SC Regt, Aug 19, 1862

From the last paragraph....

"I have nothing more of interest to write you. Our conscripts are tolerably
well fixed for camp life; nicely equipped & when we get our new uniform, I
think the old 7" will astonish her neighbors. We are having a uniform made in
Rich at the Gov't rooms, dark steel mixed jacket with light blue pants. The
pants are to be lined throughout with osnaburys. Both cloths are heavy & good,

English manufacture. Some men in the Regt are opposed to it, but I have
forbade the Qt Mast paying out a cent of clothing money, & hence they must come

in. Kindest regards to Mrs. Bland. With wishes for your speedy return.

I am as ever,
Yrs truly
D. Wyatt Aiken

[RCR001]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

I offer this for your consideration.

http://www.hmdb.org/PhotoFullSize.asp?PhotoID=129282

When Gen. Forrest started on his raid his men were barely equipped. When they returned, many were proud to say, "Our Quartermaster is Grant's Quartermaster."

I'm pretty sure there's something that can be said about Gen. Morgan outfitting his troops with loot taken from federal storehouses too.

But I'm biased.

[CSchneider]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

H'dts 7" SC Regt, Aug 19, 1862

From the last paragraph....

"I have nothing more of interest to write you. Our conscripts are tolerably well fixed for camp life; nicely equipped & when we get our new uniform, I think the old 7" will astonish her neighbors. We are having a uniform made in Rich at the Gov't rooms, dark steel mixed jacket with light blue pants. The pants are to be lined throughout with osnaburys. Both cloths are heavy & good, English manufacture. Some men in the Regt are opposed to it, but I have forbade the Qt Mast paying out a cent of clothing money, & hence they must come in. Kindest regards to Mrs. Bland. With wishes for your speedy return.

I am as ever,
Yrs truly
D. Wyatt Aiken

Wow. That's great stuff. Thanks Neill and Bryant. Aside from the color, the good Colonel was even kind enough to describe the cloth as being British and the uniforms as being cut at the government shops in Richmond. I've been a proponent of using British cloth at earlier scenarios, but the image of the Dunker Church surrounded by British blue grey and royal blue wool is something I had never conjured before. From the date of that letter it seems like it could have been a possibility.

-Craig Schneider

[FloridaConscript]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Wow. That's great stuff. Thanks Neill and Bryant. Aside from the color, the good Colonel was even kind enough to describe the cloth as being British and the uniforms as being cut at the government shops in Richmond. I've been a proponent of using British cloth at earlier scenarios, but the image of the Dunker Church surrounded by British blue grey and royal blue wool is something I had never conjured before. From the date of that letter it seems like it could have been a possibility.

-Craig Schneider

Craig,

Neill found the quote, I just posted it.
This certainly brings up some interesting information. Namely, we, as historians and researchers, need to stay open minded. Too often in this hobby folks think a lot of CS material culture is "settled science" and are unwilling to further the journey. This one letter has (to me) changed what we know about English import material. I know this is only one reg't, but the availability of the cloth and off hand nature that Aiken mentions it makes it seem that the cloth is available for purchase. Also interesting that some men did not like the idea, and would have preferred to have the commutation money than a uniform.

[roundshot]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

"October 17, 1861 - Richmond Enquirer
CITY INTELLIGENCE - THE CRENSHAW WOOLEN COMPANY
Second in importance as an auxiliary to Southern independence, scarcely to the Tredegar Iron Works, and the Virginia Armory, is the Crenshaw Woolen Company, the factory of which immediately adjoins the Tradegar works, presenting in strong and proximate contrast the arts of peace and of war - the labors of the anvil and of the loom, made equally subservient to the success of a people engaged in an arduous struggle for their liberties.
The fabrics manufactured by the Crenshaw Company, chiefly the light, blue and grey cloths, adopted for the regulation uniform of the Confederacy; broad cloths and blankets, although lacking, it may be, somewhat of the high finish of those made in Northern mills, are certainly far superior in every other respect. This superiority is especially observable in the weight and strength of the material, and in the firmness of its color. Where Yankee cloth may be torn by the slightest exertion of force, it requires the exercise of considerable muscular power to rend that manufactured by the Crenshaw Company. The marked inferiority of the former in this respect, is due to the almost general introduction into Yankee manufactures, as a substitute for wool, of the material technically known as shoddy, which, while it cheapens the manufactured article nearly 25 per cent., without detracting in the slightest degree from its appearance to the inexperienced eye, renders it comparatively worthless for actual use. . .
Another fraud upon purchasers, extensively practiced by Northern manufacturers, is in the adulterated character of the dyes used in the manufacture of broad cloths, principally log-wood and chloride of tin, the effect of which is to give to the cloth a highly glossed color, superior even in appearance to that obtained from indigo - the proper dye - but which fades away before a few days of exposure to the weather. In this respect, also, the cloth of the Crenshaw Company is superior to much the greater portion of that which finds its way to this market from the North, and is seized upon with eagerness by inexperienced purchasers, willing to sacrifice substance to show. We have ourselves witnessed a practical comparison, by means of chemical tests, between the cloth of the Crenshaw Company and a specimen of that from Northern mills, the result of which was to establish beyond cavil the excellent - we may say - the honest coloring of the former, and the thoroughly Yankee - i.e., tricky and unreliable - nature of the colors employed in the latter. Even English manufacturers, we are told, use the spurious dyes.
The sudden blockading of the ports of the South bade fair for awhile to terminate, or very much cripple, at least, the operations of the Crenshaw mills, as far as the manufacture of broadcloths was concerned, by cutting off the supply of logwood; but fortunately the much talked about ship Tropic Wind, which ran the blockade in April, brought within available distance of Richmond a full cargo of the necessary material, found on board a wreck which was encountered on the coast of Cuba. The Crenshaw Company are now enabled to furnish their less fortunate manufacturing friends throughout the South with as much logwood as can be needed for months to come. Some difficulty was also at first experienced in procuring the cotton warp necessary for manufacturing purposes, and which prior to the war had been usually brought from England, but an ample supply, nearly as excellent in quality as the British warps, is now obtained through the agency of a manufactory established at Franklinsville, N.C., under the direction of Coffee, Foush & Co. The woolen warps necessary for their business are here made in the mills of the Crenshaw Company.
The finest wool used in these manufactures is brought from South America, but the Merino wool raised in Fairfax county, in the vicinity of the now classic locality of Manassas, and the Texas wool, are very nearly equal to the South American, requiring perhaps, but care and systematic attention to render it fully so. At all events, the Virginia and Texas wools are far superior to that elsewhere to be found within the limits of North America, and are quite good enough to meet the chief requirements of the finest manufactures.
The Crenshaw Company - the only one, by the way, in the South now engaged in the manufacture of broadcloths - employ at present 25 broad looms, and an addition of 15 more are now in the course of construction; 5 sets of carding machines - three in each set - and 8 spinning jacks, comprising about 270 spindles in each. About 130 work people in all are employed, 25 of whom are females, the latter earning wages to the average amount of about $7.50 a week each. Several children ranging in their ages from 10 to 12 years, are also employed in the light and simple labor of filling shuttles. The male employees are principally foreigners, from the English, Irish, and German factories. Their labors are superintended by experienced overseers from England.
There are 8 dye vaults in the establishment, with an aggregate capacity equal to about 2,000 pounds per day; and 4 double fulling mills, in which the cloth, in its rough state of manufacture, is shrunk, to render it firm preparatory to receiving the final finish. The operation of raising the nap of the cloth, is an exceedingly simple one, and is performed upon a gig mill of a German mill.
The Crenshaw Works are now exclusively engaged under a Government contract, in the manufacture of regulation cloth for army uniforms, blankets, and stocking yarn, all for the use of the army. About 5,000 yards in all of cloth is manufactured weekly, and about 450 blankets. The latter, of which large numbers have already been furnished to the army, are quite equal to the English army blanket, many of which are made of shoddy, and superior to those of the Yankees. The blankets of the Crenshaw company are 60 by 80 inches in dimensions; are made wholly of wool, and weigh but 3 7/8 pounds."