Type of Sack Coat worn by 38th Illinois Infantry

[mboyd]

Hi All........does anyone know what type of Federal Sack Coat the soldiers of the 38th Illinois Volunteer Infantry wore and when they made the transition from Federal frock coat to Sack coat? Thanks in advance, Mike Boyd

[csuniforms]

Re: Type of Sack Coat worn by 38th Illinois Infantry

They had the Illinois State Contract jacket then a Federal Sack coat from either the Louis or Cincinnati Depot--- Or even one of the Eastern Depots if needed. The type is an open question. You have to do your research!!!!

CS uniforms

Tom Arliskas

[dixieflyer]

Re: Type of Sack Coat worn by 38th Illinois Infantry

And that research should, or can, be part of the joy of creating this impression. Have you looked for any extant diaries or journals from the 38th? Many battlefield parks, NPS or state-sponsored, will maintain an archives, and if you approach those folks with an attitude of being serious about your research, they will let you in. Contact your state archives as well as the ARNG archives of your state, I found a great deal of information from both on a regiment that I enjoy researching.

You should find some great joy in doing this. I think you will find more help forthcoming from this board if you ask the membership about where to go to start your research rather than just asking for them to give you the answer. I'm just sayin'.

Good luck! Please share with us when you find that needle in the haystack too, as that is part of the joy as well.

[mboyd]

Re: Type of Sack Coat worn by 38th Illinois Infantry

Thanks for the tips, actually, I have downloaded a bunch of photos of Illinois Volunteer Militia from different regiments, some images in the field. They seem to be wearing primarily Western Hardees and frocks(as in the image of the 85th Ill Regt), although there is a great image of Company G, 27th Illinois Inf in Westernized Hardees and Sack coats.
The only image I've found of someone in the 38th Ill. Infantry was Sgt James W. Travis. It is a portrait image.He is in a Federal Enlisted Frock with shoulder scales
(NOTE: I would post some of these images, but as I am a new member, I cannot and don't know when I'll be able to)
Yesterday, I found and ordered a copy of "Campaigns of the 38th Regiment of the Illinois Volunteer Infantry Company K 1861-63:The Diary of William Edward Patterson", this was reprinted back in 1992. Hopefully it will shed some light later this week.
As my great great grandfather was captured near Huntsville while guarding a baggage Train in Jan 1865 then put in Cahaba Prison for several months, he was there during the infamous, flood of the Cahaba, where they stood waist deep in water as the Confederates were afraid they would escape, so they did not let them out. I actually visited the prison site and got a personal tour by the park ranger...it was great!
As I said before, I am lucky to have his muster roll and pension records and 1864 reenlistment form which shows him issued an Enfield by early 1864.(since 1979, shortly after I got involved in Civil War living history).

Let me say this, and with all humility and definitely without malice, I have a huge historical library and anyone who knows me, knows I do my homework. The information specific to the 38th is very slim thus far, and if I gave anyone the impression I was looking for a historical "handout", I apologize, I was not. I decided to do this for the 150th a week ago. The first battle he fought in is Fredericktown, MO which will be recreated this November. Being on a short time frame to get proper clothing finished in time , my question was in order to jump start the info, contact an authentic supplier to flesh out what I need, based on the answer here. As we all know, whatever tunic(s) I made need to properly portray him are not hanging on the rack waiting for me.
Thus far, the info on what they did is easily accessible, what they wore from 1861-65 is not very evident at all. I really would like to do this authentically, but I did need help. If someone doesn't mind, if they know, what the 38th may have wore in 1861 at Fredericktown, whether an Illinois State Contract Jacket or Frock, I'd appreciate it.
Again, not looking for someone to do research for me, I'm doing it, I just needed a little help, I thought that is what these sites were about. I soon as I can post images , I will share the ones I have collected thus far and any info I gleen from the book I bought, I will post as well....again, if anyone can help me with the above question, I would appreciate it, Mike Boyd

[JimKindred]

Re: Type of Sack Coat worn by 38th Illinois Infantry

Mike,

Do you have an organization you will be attending the event with? If not you may want to check with the host to see what impressions will be allowed. Showing up as a regiment of one is not often appreciated nor will it give you an appreciation of the 38th ILL if you are thrown in with a group not doing this impression.

[mboyd]

Re: Type of Sack Coat worn by 38th Illinois Infantry

Thanks Jim, I appreciate the reminder, for the first one I'm attending at Fredericktown, MO in Nov, I've already contacted the event coordinator. He even turned me on to a reunion event of descendants that is happening in conjunction with the event, and I have already contacted her as well.
No, believe me, I know, I may be new to this site, but I've been doing living history(multiple periods) since the late 1970's. It is just common curtosy to contact event coordinators.
Unfortunately, there is not a 38th reactivated unit, but I'm hoping each event coord. can put me in touch with a unit that I can fall in with. I won't wear any brass numbers or anything, so hopefully my kit, when put together properly, will be welcomed by groups attending the ones I go to. Again, thanks for your comments, Mike Boyd

[dixieflyer]

Re: Type of Sack Coat worn by 38th Illinois Infantry

Mike,
Apologies for the assumption. Perhaps had you phrased your initial question differently, such as "despite looking at all the sources at my disposal, I cannot determine the contractor or pattern of sack coat worn by the 38th Ill. Does anyone have any ideas where I can turn next for this information?" Doing so lets us know that you are trying hard to work on it, which is what you are doing, and not a noob wanting a handout, which you obviously are not. :)

[mboyd]

Re: Type of Sack Coat worn by 38th Illinois Infantry

Hi Warren, I think you are right, email and posting can be tricky....sometimes the true "meaning" is misinterpreted. This morning, after my post, I found an old thread from 2009 started by Scott Cross on Spaulding Jacket/Illinois State Jacket. Wow, what great information and images. I am quickly coming to the conclusion that Tom's post on the State Jacket may be accurate for what my ancestor wore at the start. He joined in June of 1861 and was ordered to Pilot Knob, MO on Sept 20, 1861,(his muster roll states they were issued gear and rifle in route, but does not say specifically what that was) and was stationed in that area until March 1862.(This is where they were involved in the Battle of Fredericktown and Reeve's Station).
So my conclusion, thus far, is that he probably wore a State Jacket, carried an 1842 Musket and had the old Mexican War style Hard Knapsack. This seems to be where the research is heading for the 1861 look. Haven't found info yet on sky blue or Dk blue trousers.
I appreciate you realizing I'm serious about this, thanks for that Warren and I totally get where you are coming from, Mike Boyd

[Garrett Silliman]

Re: Type of Sack Coat worn by 38th Illinois Infantry

In the muster roll, did they use the word "rifle"? If they did, you may be able to narrow that down based on what rifled weapons were available to Illinois in 1861. You may already seen this but you might want to check out "arming the Suckers" http://www.amazon.com/Arming-Suckers.../dp/0890295298 .

[mboyd]

Re: Type of Sack Coat worn by 38th Illinois Infantry

I'll Check to make sure of the exact reading, thanks for the tip, Amazon was out, but I found a fine cond copy on Abebooks and snagged it. I'll check the wording and post the quote. Thanks again, Mike Boyd

[ScottCross]

Re: Type of Sack Coat worn by 38th Illinois Infantry

I replied to your PM with a couple of books for you to look at.

[GrumpyDave]

Re: Type of Sack Coat worn by 38th Illinois Infantry

The real and true answer for you lies somewhere deep whthin the QM records and, who knows if they even still exist. Your next best bet and, I see it's happening, is gather all of the first person accounts for your boys and read, read read, there might be a hidden tidbit somewhere that would give you a clue and help you t make a fairly good and educated guess. If that dries up, try other regiments in their brigade but, this may not even work. But, the way the Federal goods distribution system worked, they could have gotten several bundles fo Sack coats from NY or Philly for a whole bunch of different reasons. You can't assume their clothing came from St. Louis or Cincinatti. What if those two depots didn't have any sacks in warehouse or not enough sacks in warehouse to fill their division or corps needs, when their requsition forms came in, the army could easily shift product form one warehouse to another for distribution. So, good luck and keep us posted on what you find out.