M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

[lwtaggart]

Looking for any specific CS unit documentation with M1855 rifle muskets at first Manassas.

Respectfully.
George Taggart

[ACo.]

Re: M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

There probably won't be very much if any. The M1855 was the front line issue rifle musket for infantry in the US Army and had not been produced in large enough quantity that surplus over and above what was needed would have been passed down to the various state militias, North or South, at the time. Maybe someone else has information on it though.

[stri volunteer]

Re: M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

There were more flintlocks in the CS ranks than there were US 1855s at First Manassas. The
CS Armory would have had whatever was captured from Harpers Ferry in April 1861.
The most common weapon on both sides would have been a smoothbore musket of either the US
1816/22 in flint or converted to percussion or US 1842.

[Archie R. Lib]

Re: M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

I think the US Marine contingent at Manassas was well armed with 55's, as were a number of the US "Regular Battalion" (Companies C and K of the 2nd U.S. Infantry, Companies B, D, G, H and K of the 3rd U.S. Infantry , Co G of the 8th U.S. Infantry) commanded by Major Sykes in Hunter’s division.

As for the Confederates, this is from Harper's Weekly dated August 3, 1861, in an editorial to educate the masses regarding weaponry for the conflict:

"Of the army musket (rifled) of 1855, with clasp bayonet, there can be manufactured at Springfield from 1800 to 2000 per month; about 35,000 have already been turned out from that place, half of which are in the possession of the Confederate forces. The 7th, 12th, and 71st Regiments N. Y. S. M. are furnished with this arm, which can be supplied by the quantity at about $22.50 each. The Minie rifle, with sabre bayonet, costs $30."

Interesting how they refer to the full sized 3-band as the "musket (rifled)", and the 2-band (with the "sabre" bayonet) as the "Minie rifle"...

Thx.
R

[gsusat]

Re: M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

George

A few Thoughts.
Terminology - Rifle musket and Rifled musket are terms coined by modern collectors. When you look at original paperwork a different terminology is used and not consistently even by ordinance personel. Looking at original records can be quite informative but often there is a vagueness that can be frustrating. With the long-arms the focus seems to be on caliber and rifling. Makes sence from a supply perspective.

1855 vs 1816's at Manassas - Well over 1 million 1816s were made soe they are going to dwarf most everything else. At the start of the war the US ord. folks tried to firgue out what went south. The inventory report of Nov 1859 show 24,105 1855 rifle muskets and 4102 1855 rifles in storage. That does not include producuction from then on but still a large number had been dispersed. Troops in Texas had pretty much been re-equiped with 1855 but a number had been sent to the states. A later report dated 21 Dec 1860 covers the arms distributed since 1 Jan 1860 - 7,853 1855 rifle muskets and 1728 1855 rifles were distributed to all the states - most went north but for example South Carolina got 646, Georgia got 390, Fl 100, Ala 170; La 701; Tenn 600; And for the 1855 rifles NC got 311; VA 50; Miss 212; La 104;

The Harper's Ferry in the 1859 report has the largest stockpile if 8,599 RM and 3,570 rifles. They continued to produce both until April of 1861. The Soldier who burned the armory upon the advance of the Virgina militia in spring of 1861 claimed to have burned 15,000 new muskets and rifles, that is not necessarily accurate. We know most of the machinery was captured intact and was removed. An inventory was made of the equipment and parts turned over. The question remains as to the number of complete weapons captured and the number of arms assembled there by the Virginians that spring. Probably most were put into the hands of the troops.

So while it is correct that most soldiers were carrying and interesting assortment of older weapons, 1855s would not be unknown as would 1841 rifles. However that first year of the war an interesting tendency showed up. As all of the troops were clamoring for the most modern weapons the officials felt pressure to spread the more modern rifled weapons to as many units as possible and in many cases they did that by issuing the rifled weapons to the flank companies. The 2nd Miss was an example of that, as the flank companies had 1841 rifles.

So for me, one of the things I am really glad to see is a unit taking the field with that split in arms issue. The majority of us will be carrying smoothbrores but two companies will have rifles...

Oh reports mentioned come from Fuller's "Firearms of the Confederacy" As time passed I gain respect for him - he quotes many original paperwork in its entirity.

Your mileage may vary.

[Marine Mike]

Re: M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

The Marines at Bull Run were armed with the M1842 and ball cartridges. The Marine Corps did have some rifiled M1842 but I don't have anything with clear enough record to indicate if any of the few belonging to the Corps were a Bull Run. It is known that 2nd Lt. Robert W. Huntington was armed with the M1855 pistol carbine.
John D. McAulay in his book Civil War Small Arms of the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps says that the Marines had 1000 M1855 by late November 1860. He accounts for some but also says the record is not complete enough to fully know the true deployment. I get the impression that these were first issued to fleet Marines.

[Skutatos]

Re: M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

A few Thoughts.
Terminology - Rifle musket and Rifled musket are terms coined by modern collectors. When you look at original paperwork a different terminology is used and not consistently even by ordinance personel. Looking at original records can be quite informative but often there is a vagueness that can be frustrating. With the long-arms the focus seems to be on caliber and rifling. Makes sence from a supply perspective.

I believe a number of books from the era use both terms.

[gsusat]

Re: M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

Nathan

Well I am without my books but I wanted to post a quick comment and tonight when I get home I will take a look at my books.

The terms "Rifle" "Musket" "Rifle Musket" "Rifled Musket" were used during the period. But my understanding the consistent definitions that are applyed today were not applyed then. Today if you tell a collector "Rifle Musket" The assumption is a 58 cal three band arm - model 1855 to 1863. Then I do not think you could make those assumptions.

The charts I looked at last night were in two categories Muskets and Rifles which was the standard for US ordinance since the beginning. The 1855s were listed under Muskets. What I have seen in period inventories is seperating the weapons into flintlock or percussion ; what caliber and rifled. Rarely have I run across delinations of different models.

During the period the terms were all used but not in a consistant manor as they are now.

[lwtaggart]

Re: M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

Gents,
Thank you for your replies. I must apoligize in my question I intented to state,"Rifled Musket." Ran across an ordanance report refering to the, "minnie musket." I have seen this a number of times. Not convinced this weapon was more present early than information provides. Just a thought...

Cheers,
George Taggart

[ndnchf]

Re: M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

The Montpelier Guard (13th Virginia Infantry, Co. A) was at Harpers Ferry May-June 1861. In the Library of Virginia there is a ledger from the Montpelier Guard that records equipment issued to the unit. One of our members examined the ledger and noted that on June 11th ,there is any entry that states "all the soldiers had a "minnie musket and all equipments". Unfortunately there are no other details, but we assume this to mean 1855 rifle muskets obrained from Harpers Ferry.

[lwtaggart]

Re: M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

Thanks Steve. I live in Montpelier, Va. The first I have ever heard of this. I'll follow that up...

George Taggart

[ndnchf]

Re: M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

Small world George! Some of our members are at the recreated Confederate winter hut site at James Madison's Montpelier estate today and tomorrow. Stop by if you have a chance, its directly behind the Gilmore cabin.

[Southron Sanders, Sr.,]

Re: M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

The key to understanding the distribution of arms prior to the war is found in "The Militia Act of 1808."

The Federal government undertook the responsibility of providing federally owned arms to the various state militias. Basically, every year the Adjutant General of each state applied to the Ordnance Department for that particular state's "Quota" of arms.

This quota was determined by a formula that was based on how many citizens each state had enrolled in their state's militias.

In addition, the state had the option of requesting different types of arms. For example one state might request a high number of rifle muskets while another might request not only rifle muskets but also an artillery battery or two. Cavalry arms could also be requested.

Now, THEORETICALLY in the Ante Bellium era, arms manufactured in the "National Armories" at Harpers Ferry and Springfield were reserved exclusively for issue to the Regular Army and Navy while identical arms, manufactured by companies such as Whiteny, Ames, Waters, and other contractors were supposed to be issued ONLY to the state militias.

The "Bomford Scandal" pretty much dealt a death blow to the pre-war "Contractor System" in place in the Ante-Bellium era, hence at the beginning of the war, state militias were issued arms made in both Springfield and Harpers Ferry.

In the South, of course, not only did Southern states have access to federal arms issued under The Militia Act of 1808 and usually in state armories, but also the arms seized in the Federal Arsenals located throughout the Southern States when the various states Seceded from the Union.

Sign your first and last name when posting on this forum please. It is one of the "Big Three" rules that we have. Thank you, Herb Coats - Moderator

[lwtaggart]

Re: M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

Mr. Sanders,

Thank you for your reply. What I was looking for though was evidence of specific CS organizations at !st Manassas that very likely carried the M1855 rifled musket. Understood, this is a long shot but, you never know what you may find. The post by Mr. Blancard on the 13th VA is fantaastic! As you mention, the distribution of small arms leading up to the conflict would lend the posibility there were more CS troops with this weapon. Another twist here is the pre-war concern in the south of a slave uprising. Small arms of all types were being directed to Southern Arsenals.

Respectfully,
George Taggart

[VMI Confederate 07]

Re: M1855 Rifle Musket @ 1st Manassas

Gentlemen,

I parused an article in the NRA's publication "American Rifleman" yesterday containing information on this very subject. Due to the constraints of a magazine article, not many of his sources are listed. However, it digs very heavily into this very subject and suggest everyone who can find a copy give it a read.