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Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

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  • #1

    Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

    Gents -

    I have done some research on this topic through ANV Inspection reports (thanks mainly to Jim Schruefer's new website at www.blueandgraymarching.com) and other primary and secondary sources that I have access to, but I want to ensure that my portrayal is as correct as I can make it.

    I portray a North Carolina infantryman, mid-war (July 62-July 64). My great (x4) grandfather, Andrew J. Martin, was a private in Company H, and I am looking for input on the most correct musket/rifled musket/rifle to carry. Unfortunately, much information is lacking with regards to the equipage of Scales' (formerly Pettigrew's, then Pender's) Brigade in AP Hill's Corps of which my unit was a part for the duration of the war.

    So, I posted this poll for a tool to help make this decision. There are several there to vote on, all I ask is that you post a comment with the info to support your choice. I'm sure there are sources out there that I am not aware of, and I am always looking for that kind of information. Also, if your choice is not on the poll, please post it anyway and let me know the source of your information.

    I know that Wilmington was a busy port for blockade runners, so imports were always finding their way into Tarheel hands, but I don't want to make any assumptions...

    Thanks in advance for any help.

    R
    133
    Pattern 1853 Enfield Rifled Musket
    54.14%
    72
    Springfield M1842 Smoothbore Musket
    16.54%
    22
    Springfield M1855 Rifled Musket (Either Type or Rifle)
    1.50%
    2
    "Richmond" Confederate M1862 Rifled Musket
    6.77%
    9
    Springfield M1861 Rifled Musket
    7.52%
    10
    Springfield M1863 Rifled Musket
    0.00%
    0
    Harper's Ferry M1841 Rifle (Mississippi) .54 Cal
    0.75%
    1
    Harper's Ferry M1841/55 Rifle (Mississippi) .58 Cal
    3.01%
    4
    Austrian M1854 Lorenz Rifled Musket
    3.01%
    4
    Springfield M1816/22 Percussion Conversion
    4.51%
    6
    Springfield M1835/40 Percussion Conversion
    2.26%
    3
    Rich Libicer
    Fugi's Brown Water Mess

    6th North Carolina - 150th First Manassas, July 2011
    4th Texas Dismounted, Co. C - 150th Valverde, February 2012
    6th Mississippi Adjunct - 150th Shiloh, April 2012
    4th Texas Dismounted, Co. C - 150th Glorieta Pass, May 2012
    21st Arkansas Adjunct - 150th Prairie Grove, December 2012
    5th Confederate, Co. C - 150th Chickamauga, September 2013
    Haitus...... Until Now

    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

    Considering the Confederacy imported somewhere in the neighborhood of 400,000 Enfields during the war it's probably going to be your best bet for post 62 timeframe. Paired with the fact that one of the main blockade runner hubs was in North Carolina, you can't go wrong with using an Enfield. Domestic production of weapons in the south was poor at best. That's why Caleb Huse was sent to Europe as soon as possible to buy up as much weaponry as possible to meet the south's needs. Enfield rifles were one of his first purchases!
    [FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="5"]Eric Davis
    Handsome Company Mess
    Liberty Hall Drum Corps [/SIZE][/FONT]

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

      I would go with the Enfield for mid war. I know a whole lot of NC troops were issued 1816 conversions in the beginning of the war from photos and local relic finds. You also left out two rifles the Fayettville rifle, and one of those contract NC rifles that look like a Mississippi rifle but don't have the patch box, I've viewed several of both of those rifles attributed to NC troops.
      Wade Rogers

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

        I'm voting '42 smoothbore. Yes the Enfield would probably be a great choice as well. However, I'm stating the Lisk Box....the Box recovered (from I believed Fredericksburg). It is a .69 caliber round ball cartridge box. Lisk didn't enlist until March of '62 and was captured in March of '64. Maybe not the same folks...but we're still talking mid war NC solider in the ANV.
        Luke Gilly
        Breckinridge Greys
        Lodge 661 F&AM


        "May the grass grow long on the road to hell." --an Irish toast

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

          The 27th was issued Enfields during the summer of '63...but (fortunately) they were in Charleston that fateful July.
          B. G. Beall (Long Gone)

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

            one would think that a Fayetteville Rifle would have been a choice, Fayetteville Armory being in NC. unless your lumping those into the Harpers Ferry 1855 rifle category
            [FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=3]Michael Phillips, GGG Grandson of
            Pvt Edmond Phillips, 44th NCT, Co E, "The Turtle Paws"[/SIZE]
            [SIZE=2]Mustered in March 1862
            Paroled at Appomattox C.H. Virginia, April 15, 1865[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

            [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=Navy][B]"Good, now we'll have news from Hell before breakfast."[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
            Was Gen Sherman's response upon hearing the capture and execution of 3 reporters who had followed from Atlanta, by the rebels.
            The execution part turned out to be false.[COLOR=DarkRed] [B]Dagg Nabbit![/B][/COLOR][/FONT]

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

              Neill Maultsby. b 1833. Winter 1864
              1st Sgt, Co. H, 51 NC, Columbus Light Infantry.
              A Goldsboro Bridge participant.




              H.Mintz collection. Do not reproduce.
              B. G. Beall (Long Gone)

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

                NC issued thousands of rifled conversions through the Fall of 1862 (as per NCDoAH Records, Form 40 and Form 20 requistions...listed as "common rifles").
                B. G. Beall (Long Gone)

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

                  Originally posted by Prodical Reb View Post
                  one would think that a Fayetteville Rifle would have been a choice, Fayetteville Armory being in NC. unless your lumping those into the Harpers Ferry 1855 rifle category
                  Hey Michael. Very good point. Yes, I'd be including the Fayetteville in with the 55 Harper's Ferry Rifle.
                  Rich Libicer
                  Fugi's Brown Water Mess

                  6th North Carolina - 150th First Manassas, July 2011
                  4th Texas Dismounted, Co. C - 150th Valverde, February 2012
                  6th Mississippi Adjunct - 150th Shiloh, April 2012
                  4th Texas Dismounted, Co. C - 150th Glorieta Pass, May 2012
                  21st Arkansas Adjunct - 150th Prairie Grove, December 2012
                  5th Confederate, Co. C - 150th Chickamauga, September 2013
                  Haitus...... Until Now

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

                    Here are two well researched articles from the North State Rifles regarding the arms and equipment of the 38th N.C., which was in the same brigade as the 22nd and was probably VERY similar in arms and equipment. I'll let you all read it and draw your own conclusions.

                    38th North Carolina in 1864
                    http://www.northstaterifles.com/38-2.htm


                    38th North Carolina Troops
                    http://www.northstaterifles.com/38.htm


                    Will MacDonald

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

                      What, no Springfields? These were the guys that captured Harper's Ferry on 9/62! Here's a Gettysburg quote from Benjamin W.Thompson of the 111th NYV: "The triumph of our brigade was one of the many wonderful retributions of the war. We were all surrendered at Harper's Ferry . . . and this charge [Pickett/Pettigrew/Trimble] was fought by the very men that captured us and so we took from them 14 stands of colors with 'Harper's Ferry' inscribed upon them and several thousand of our own Springfield rifled muskets with full sets of accouterments, even to the belt plates with 'US' on them. As they passed through our lines and recognized our regiments . . . they threw down their arms and accouterments [saying] 'There's what we got from you'uns at Harper's Ferry. We'uns have had 'em long enough.'" [Civil War Times Illustrated, October 1973]

                      Further research shows 4 flags from this brigade captured at Gettysburg, all inscribed "Harper's Ferry. Willard's brigade, of which the 111th NY was a part, was instrumental in some of these. You do the math.
                      Bob Williams
                      26th North Carolina Troops
                      Blogsite: http://26nc.org/blog/

                      As [one of our cavalry] passed by, the general halted him and inquired "what part of the army he belonged to." "I don't belong to the army, I belong to the cavalry." "That's a fact," says [the general], "you can pass on." Silas Grisamore, 18th Louisiana

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

                        Originally posted by roundshot View Post
                        What, no Springfields? These were the guys that captured Harper's Ferry on 9/62! Here's a Gettysburg quote from Benjamin W.Thompson of the 111th NYV: "The triumph of our brigade was one of the many wonderful retributions of the war. We were all surrendered at Harper's Ferry . . . and this charge [Pickett/Pettigrew/Trimble] was fought by the very men that captured us and so we took from them 14 stands of colors with 'Harper's Ferry' inscribed upon them and several thousand of our own Springfield rifled muskets with full sets of accouterments, even to the belt plates with 'US' on them. As they passed through our lines and recognized our regiments . . . they threw down their arms and accouterments [saying] 'There's what we got from you'uns at Harper's Ferry. We'uns have had 'em long enough.'" [Civil War Times Illustrated, October 1973]

                        Further research shows 4 flags from this brigade captured at Gettysburg, all inscribed "Harper's Ferry. Willard's brigade, of which the 111th NY was a part, was instrumental in some of these. You do the math.
                        post of the week right there!

                        I kinda dig the "with full sets of accoutrements, even to the belt plates with 'US' on them." part.
                        Bryant Roberts
                        Palmetto Guards/WIG/LR

                        Interested in the Palmetto Guards?
                        palmettoguards@gmail.com

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

                          The number of Fayetteville small arms of any great number, even by mid war for infantry troops would be a stretch in my opinion. First, the Fayetteville armory was late getting up and running. It wasn't until October of 1862 that the Armory was able to rely on itself for lockplates. Before that it was supplied from Richmonmd. The same difficulty was with the supply of stock blanks. To much of the CS resources were being drawn upon by the construction and operation of the new facility at Macon, GA. Looking at the numbers produced by CS Armories, Richmond totals the highest quantity of completed weapons. The peak of Richmond's production appears during the mid 1863 to mid 1864 time frame. Just a thought...

                          George Taggart
                          George Taggart

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

                            Bumpin for input..... Great stuff so far.

                            VR

                            Rich
                            Rich Libicer
                            Fugi's Brown Water Mess

                            6th North Carolina - 150th First Manassas, July 2011
                            4th Texas Dismounted, Co. C - 150th Valverde, February 2012
                            6th Mississippi Adjunct - 150th Shiloh, April 2012
                            4th Texas Dismounted, Co. C - 150th Glorieta Pass, May 2012
                            21st Arkansas Adjunct - 150th Prairie Grove, December 2012
                            5th Confederate, Co. C - 150th Chickamauga, September 2013
                            Haitus...... Until Now

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Correct North Carolina Infantryman Arms

                              This and more info will eventually appear on my website, but I can share that the 22nd NC of Scales' Brigade reported the following arms on hand June 30, 1863:

                              250 small arms caliber .58
                              75 small arms caliber .69

                              They don't get any more specific as to type. The regiment also filled out a report of guns and accoutrements lost at Gettysburg, reporting the loss of 185 .58 caliber and 84 .69 caliber. Ordnance issues from late September show the regiment still drawing some .69's along with new .58's.

                              This info is from the Compiled Service Record of Capt. Columbus Siler, National Archives Record Group 109.
                              Jim Schruefer
                              Staunton, VA
                              [url]www.blueandgraymarching.com[/url]

                              Comment

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