Identify this Spider Pan

[SCTiger]

Comarderen:

A hunter found this "spider" iron pan near Pocotaglio, SC off Hwy. 17 on private land, he found it in a clay bank adjacent to a creek, well preserved. Sold it to me today for $12. It matches the style found at the Greenville, SC Confederate Museum and in the Confederate EOG, Uniforms and Equipment volume. No markings are present, notice the long crease at the bottom, this was common to the museum spider as well. I don't have the page number for EOG off hand. I also remember some reference to some poor AOT Johnny hauling one around in his knapsack and refused to abandon it, the members of his mess loved it so much that lugged it everywhere.

So what do you think, is it the real WBTS version, or could it be Rev War or post CW? There's always an expert for everything on this forum! :tounge_sm

Greg Deese
Spider Pan mess

[Moonshine]

Re: Identify this Spider Pan

Greg,

I believe it is. I found one similar to this less than a year ago on eBay and when I brought it to an event, I IMMEDIATLEY had 2 people ask where I got it and how much I wanted for it because it was period. They mentioned that if it has a seam underneath, then that indicates 1840 - ???'s manufacture. Of course they could be wrong but 2 different people mentioned the same thing. They added that if there are no numbers on it (to indicate size) then that's a good indicator too.

My handle was intact and didn't have a groove in it like yours seems to. Mine is a spitting image of the EoG skillet. I lucked out like you did because I guess these things are near impossible to find! If it's small enough you could tote it in a knapsack I guess. It's not too bad.

Hope this helps,

Jim Ross

[Enfilade]

Re: Identify this Spider Pan

Mr. Deese,

I believe this to be the real deal as the line underneath(gate) indicates it's dated time of manufacture as being pre-1880. That is the time of of a change in mode of manufacture. Great find. Have you weighed the article? I would be curious as to it's actual poundage. Thanks for sharing the imagery.

Mark Berrier
North State Rifles
combinations@northstate.net

[SCTiger]

Re: Identify this Spider Pan

Thanks:

I will have it weighed soon. I couldn't get the guy to tell me exactly where he found the pan, too bad because it was probably marked indicated a camp, march route or battlefield. Too bad it can't talk. I may bring it to a Winter Quarters or Garrison event. It will fit in a single bag knapsack, although I wouldn't haul it around.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Identify this Spider Pan

too bad because it was probably marked indicated a camp, march route or battlefield.

I agree that it's pre-1880, or at least in that style of casting. I'm curious though why you think it probably marked something military? I'd think that there were a heck of a lot more of these pans being used in the many decades before, during and after the war by just plain folks, than being carried by soldiers during one four-year period. Since it was found in a creek bank, it could have washed out of a dump area where broken things got discarded. That would be my first guess, barring more information.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[SCTiger]

Re: Identify this Spider Pan

Hank Good Point.

I was thinking along those lines because there was a battle around the Pocotaglio area and the pan was recovered deep in a very swampy area, if I could find the site and recover other relics, then I would know. The guy was real elusive about specifying the exact location, he hunts deer but, he couldn't remember exactly were he found it. Doesn't sound like any hunter I know, they usually know their hunting grounds very well. Battlefield relic or not, it's was worth the dozen dollars.


Greg Deese

[SCTiger]

Re: Identify this Spider Pan

I have found the reference I had forgot. From The Civil War Infantryman: In camp, on the march, and in battle. Gregory A. Coco (1996) Page 28.

"Soon these large "kits" of extraneous items gave way to to each man carrying a small tin cup or a "boiler" which was a larger cup with a wire or "bail" handle, plus a spoon and maybe a knife. Each mess, or sometimes a whole company if it was small enough, carried along on campaign a bread oven or "spider" as it was called, or a frying pan. The cast iron "spider" could be used in both applications; it simply had three legs and a cover. The men took turns toting the spider or the squad's frying pan, and it was used equally by all in the mess or by the assigned cook of the company."

The photo on page 28 of a Union Spider found in a camp in Virginia is a twin brother to the one I have. Complete with broken handle and the indentation in the handle. I know coincedental evidence.

[Tenthtexas]

Re: Identify this Spider Pan

That does appear to be a great find and constructed pre 1880. But for military use is still up for debate. If found in a swamp area, it is easy to presume that many refugees or vagrants from service would have been hiding out from the calamity and sought such an area.
This is recorded well in a book Divided Allegiances-Bertie County during the Civil War. This was written about a county in Eastern North Carolina where it describes in great detail that many men hid out in the woods and swamps to avoid the conscription agents. If doing so, they were close to their homes and would have had access to some of the necessities to cook from home. Just my opinion but would have been a huge weight for a soldier to bear and not very williingly.

Art Milbert

[SCTiger]

Re: Identify this Spider Pan

Art,

Even as valuable as the spider could be, I don't think it would be a common item. I don't know where Coco got his primary source from but, I would imagine that something like this would belong to a unit with wagon support, I suspect Union.. I just can't envision Johnny Reb lugging one around. If any Infantry did carry one as Coco's reference suggest that would be flat amazing. Thanks.

Greg Deese

[Linda_Trent]

Re: Identify this Spider Pan

That does appear to be a great find and constructed pre 1880. But for military use is still up for debate.

Exactly. And another point is, just because it was made prior to the 1880s doesn't mean it wasn't still in use well into the turn of the 20th century, and either lost or left there. Ah the speculations :wink_smil I know I'm still using some pans that are 40 years old. If spiders could only talk :tounge_sm

Linda Trent
lindatrent@zoomnet.net

[Jimmayo]

Re: Identify this Spider Pan

You read all the time about the wagons not catching up with the men and no rations got issued. A cast iron pan such as this (and don't forget it also had a cast iron lid) would surely be carried in a wagon and would not be an item carried on the march. Once in camp it would be removed from the wagon and used. As the war progressed, CS usage of cast spiders and kettles would probably decrease since replacement cast cook ware would be hard to obtain

The stamped metal spider pictured in the image gallery would be much easier to carry and manufacture but the legs would still get in the way on the march.

Greg: Why don't you post this picture in the image gallery under original CW items with a short description of it's use. I have a dug lid (broken) from a 57th Va. early camp I will post also.

[SCTiger]

Re: Identify this Spider Pan

I will see about posting the image. I will label it as a "possible" or archetype cast-iron spider. Here are the dimensions :

Weight: 11 pounds (exact)
Width : 12.5 Inches
Depth of Pan: 2.90 inches

Anyways if I could find a intact lid that would be neat. I may head to the Poco reigon of SC with my metal detector and start to search the hunting areas, if anyone will give me permission.

A friend of mine also examined the handle and thought that it was sawed off and not broken, the end is very smooth, but, that could also be from 140 years of wear.


Thanks

Greg Deese

[SCTiger]

Re:Selling the Spider Pan

I have decide to sell this South Carolina Spider Pan on Ebay with ALL proceeds going toward Battlefield Preservation and most specifically Morris Island. I will pay for shipping and you can bid here:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ESSE%3AIT&rd=1

The purchaser will own a first rate spider and will do their part to save our Battlefield Resources, a double win.