Model 1849 Ames Rifleman's Knife

[J.H. Moore]

Gents,

I know the 1849 Ames knife has been mentioned here before, but I am having problems finding historical information on them. I understood them to be the first government contracted military knives and that they were carried during the CW, but not much more. I know knives are somewhat of a gray area and open to some interpretation as there is such a variation. I'd like to know if a Southerner may have picked one of these up at some point or if it was a realistic possibility. Thanks.

Addition- I have found documentation and photos of Hicks rifleman's knives that belonged to Southern soldiers. Still wondering about Ames.

[AZReenactor]

Re: Model 1849 Ames Rifleman's Knife

With only 1,000 produced these would have been a very rare item in the era. At the time of the Civil War they were still in government inventory and not widely available. I know they were issued to the teamsters accompanying the California Column but I have yet to uncover just how many of the 1,000 were in the Benicia Arsenal at the war's start.

Is there someone out there making a quality repop these days? Most of the repops I've seen are low quality cheap foreign imitations.

BTW, here are some good photos of an original to compare the repops to.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Model 1849 Ames Rifleman's Knife

Hallo!

I believe it is lost to History, and we don't know much about the contractros who supplied the sundry belt knives (no contracts, no descriptions, and no provencanced specimens) that came about supplying riflemen as a result of the Militia Act of 1808.

In the mid 1830's or so, a cutler form Cleveland, OH named Andrew Hicks had been making numbers of military knives, and landed a contract (which has not survived) to supply rifleman's knives to the Allegheny Arsenal in Pittsburg (there been noted in their letter books).

In 1848 (partialy as a result of problems with the M1841 Rifle not being able to take a bayonet), the Ordnanc eDepartment contracted for the first "rifleman's knife" made toa specific government pattern. "The Hick's rifleman's knife exist sin two versions, altohugh standardized, that more Hicks doing than the government's.) James Ames signed a contract on March 8, 1848 for "1,000 knives for the REgiment of Mounted Riflemen." at $4.00 a knife. they were deliivered as a lot on May 5, 1848.

Sometime between then and when the Mounted Rifles became the 3rd Cavalry Regiment in 1861, they "went away."

I once had an Ames Rifleman's Knife that was made duirng the CW Centennial. It was excellent, and its only flaw was the the markers were a SLIGHTLY different font style noticeable to the keen ye.

Sometime IIRC, around the mid 1980's someone came out with a dead-ringer for the Hick's knife complete with Hick's stamps. (I was thrown out of a well known dealer's establishment when I pointed out he was selling a repro as a mint oriignal at a minty price.)

The Indians and Pakistanis have been selling repros of the Ames for a number of years. They are... pretty bad,. and vary according to the eye and skill of the worker banging them out. NONE any good and kinda/sorta but really DON'T do Ames knives justice.

Somewhere, likley in my dead hard drive, I have a picturee or three of lads wearing an Ames... IMHO, I would argue that they are, at only 1,000 made, a bit too rare but not unknown for the CW. But with the crappy Indi/Paki repro's, not worth wasting money one.

Curt
Should have not sold the Hicks. It was nice. But I never could connect to an impression. Mess

[J.H. Moore]

Re: Model 1849 Ames Rifleman's Knife

Thanks for the info! I did some looking and actually found an older Japanese repro. Aside for a few differences, including "Japan" engraved on the hilt, it's pretty close to the original. It seems to be built pretty well and can be used as a working knife. I found a website that shows the Japanese repros easily aged and decently faked. I have had experience with knock-offs from India and avoid them like the plague.

[FTrooper]

Re: Model 1849 Ames Rifleman's Knife

Some serious "collectors" back in the early 1990's or late 1980's made a select run of very high quality ones...but it was like 150 and they got snatch by serious knife guys!

Two companies of the Mounted Rifle Regiment are KNOWN to have been issued them and had them in Texas in the 1850's, one of those companies appears to have still had some on inventory in 1862, I think as late as their move to Arkansas. There were possibly other companies, but not many. As Troy notes MOST of these ended up in Benicia Arsenal. Somewhere in my post war files I have many of them still in storage there in the late 1870's and few get issued out piecemeal. You do see the one or two in pictures of Border Ruffians in Bleeding Kansas, but overall they are a rare item and pretty specific to the mounted rifles and storage! LOL!. Man-At-Arms magazine did a pretty good article on them years ago with most of the information I am passing along.

Chris Fischer
F-Troop

[MarionRifles]

Re: Model 1849 Ames Rifleman's Knife

Here's a Dag of a Mounted Rifleman with an Ames.

[yipper]

Re: Model 1849 Ames Rifleman's Knife

Mr. Moen,

Do you have any information regarding who, when, where, etc. regarding that really fine image?

Thanks,

geoffrey lehmann

[MarionRifles]

Re: Model 1849 Ames Rifleman's Knife

The image was offered up on Cowans auction site with the following information;

"Wearing the M1839 pattern hat and a later style frock coat; he wears trousers with a single large stripe at the seam. At his waist is the rare M1849 Rifleman's knife made by Ames under contract expressly for the Regiment of Mounted Rifles in 1849 along with a civilian pepperbox revolver. He holds a M1841 Mississippi rifle complete with sling. In a half case. Written in period ink behind the plate is the following: Charles E. Alexander. King Georg County Virginia. Taken on his way to California, April 1849. The daguerreotype was likely taken in St. Louis while the regiment was posted to Jefferson Barracks recruiting and awaiting orders for the Oregon Trail."

[Northerner]

Re: Model 1849 Ames Rifleman's Knife

Which pattern frock coat is it that he is wearing?