"sailors shirt"

[Johan Steele]

Three or four years ago I purchased a red "sailors shirt," at least that's what the sutler called it. It has baggy sleeves and is a very simple and fairly baggy shirt. It has a V cut front w/ cord laceing at the chest to tie it shut, it's also quite comfortable. I have read multiple references to this particular style of shirt on the waterfronts of Charlestown & Savannah, on the flat boats and on the Great Lakes. Apparently they were made of made of wool, muslin or cotton depending on where they were made... Frankly, I think a wool version would be quite comfortable on the great lakes.

At the same Sutler I also purchased two white shirts of similar construction though they had regular sleeves and were of more conventional cut. I did this mainly because I thought the issue shirt was a bit over represented. Ironically, both of the white shirts were 100% hand sewn and the red one is machine sewn.

How PEC is such a shirt for a western federal impression? Am I out of line wearing it as a purchase item?

Thanks for any input...

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: "sailors shirt"

I have enclosed a photo of Lewis Paine wearing a style of shirt that was popular with both military and civilian sailors.

[TeamsterPhil]

Re: "sailors shirt"

I did this mainly because I thought the issue shirt was a bit over represented.

How PEC is such a shirt for a western federal impression? Am I out of line wearing it as a purchase item?

I find the opposite to be true in terms of Federal issue shirts. The VAST majority of the Fed reenactors should be wearing one.

Not having done any research on such a shirt, I can't definitively say whether or not it's PEC. My instincts tell me it might not be, since I can't recall any pictures from the immediate pre-war or war years off the top of my head. But I'll leave a more definite answer to those that have done more research on shirts than I have.

Phil Campbell

[Johan Steele]

Re: "sailors shirt"

Hiredcutthroat, thanks for the photo. What I have is baggier in the sleeves w/ a V cut front w/ cord instead of three buttons as are seen in many period civilian shirts. The white shirts are almsot identical to the picture except they have a vneck w/ cord instead of buttons...

Teamsterphil, I agree w/ you that the majority of Federal troops wore issue items in the Eastern Armies close to the depot's. From what I've gleaned the Western troops, not so much Army of the Cumberland, seemed always in short supply for clothing issue. Whether from less efficient Quartermasters or distance from depot's I don't know. I've found numerous letters requesting shirts, socks, sleeping hats, mittens etc. I had been led to believe govt shirts were typically of rather poor quality and weren't very highly prized... Is this wrong?

Thanks again for all of your input... everything that improves the impression is appreciated.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: "sailors shirt"

Shane

Which sutler did you get your shirt from? The term "sutler" gives me the fear. Do you have any period images, drawings, or period descriptions of this type of shirt? Im not off hand familiar with what you are describing.

I have to agree with TeamsterPhil. The US army shirt was made in the millions and IMO would have been close to universal in all theaters and time periods, including the Army of the Cumberland and Army of the Tennessee. (My primary US impressions) At any rate the US issue shirt is a "safe" choice for any US impression and is totally PEC.

[Yellowhammer]

Re: "sailors shirt"

I don't think the shirt in the picture what the poster is describing. The garment in the period image lacks most, if not all the relevent features described most notably the lace-up front.

Is such a thing PEC for Federal use? I would say almost certainly not. I have never seen an image of any Civil War soldier wearing such a garment. I would recommend consulting William Brown's "Thoughts on Men's Shirts" to see if your shirt is even a correct civilian pattern.

Regarding the comments about "sutlers" vs. "vendors," I would add that "handsewn" does not equal "authentic." First, you much look at materials, pattern and construction. If an item is correct in those three areas, then you must look at context. Only then can you say an item is correct for an impression. For example, the best reproduction Tait jacket ever made is probably not your best choice for First Manassas.

Regarding the comment about Federal issue shirts being "over represented" in the hobby, that is just wrong. Aside from a few scattered units on the
To the comments about sutlers, I would add that "hand-sewn" does not equal authentic. To be authentic, you must look at materials, pattern and hinterlands who didn't receive the full Federal uniform, the issue shirt was standard issue. As a general rule, the issue shirt is the most PEC shirt a Federal soldier can wear.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: "sailors shirt"

Even units like the 3rd CA at Fort Ruby Nevada, and the 1st CA in Arizona-New Mexico, about as hinterlands as you can get, had issue shirts.

[Yellowhammer]

Re: "sailors shirt"

Robert,

I absolutely agree. I was just trying to forestall the inevitable, "the 168th Nevada were only ever issued sack coats" type post.

The CW pattern issue shirt was not a new item when the war broke out.

BTW, one the famous Confederate "three prisoners" is wearing a Fed issue shirt.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: "sailors shirt"

John

I hear you! I think we need to start looking at the Army shirt as being an item like a canteen, musket, fatigue cap. In other words something everybody would have recieved and most likely used.

BTW I think the 3 CS prisoners image is probably the best photo study of the shirt in question.

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: "sailors shirt"

Yes, Federal Issue shirts are usually under represented to most Federal progressive units, and in some "so called" hardcore units.

I only know a few hardcore units where everyone except for the officers wear issue shirts usually.

Assuming everything in your "kit" is correct, an issue shirt for the authentic reenactor really completes the Federal "look" to your impression.

[Johan Steele]

Re: "sailors shirt"

IIRC, I picked up the shirts at a Sutler at Bascobel Wi, I don't recall who or even for certain where though.

I have seen photo evidence of this style of shirt but never on a soldier, which is why I was curious if it was PEC. Luckily my wife has turned into quite the seamstress over the last year or so. After seeing the responses I think I'll ask her to make me an issue shirt.

The white shirts I purchased I have seen photos of in Arizona & New Mexico shortly after the War... several being worn by Mexicans.

I appreciate the info, gents.

[County Militia]

Re: "sailors shirt"

What does PEC mean?

How often would the shirt we are speaking of have been used in the area west of the Miss, particularly in Missouri/Arkansas/Kansas?

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: "sailors shirt"

What does PEC mean?

How often would the shirt we are speaking of have been used in the area west of the Miss, particularly in Missouri/Arkansas/Kansas?

PEC, Period Everyday Common. A great description should be under the FAQ folder.

If you are refering to the US issue shirt in the trans Miss area, they would be as common as any other theater of the war, in other words; VERY. As for the "sailor shirt" I have never seen anything that matches the desription (that doesnt mean it didnt exsist, just that I cannot place it) What I know to be a sailor shirt is what Lewis Paine is wearing in the photo I posted.

Shane do you think you can post a period photo, drawing, or painting to help us out?