Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

[Mississippian]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

Dave,

You may find this and the next page interesting:

http://ebooks.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moawar;cc=moawar;idno=waro0006;q1=A.R.%20Wright;view=image;seq=332;size=100;page=root

Seems the Sec. of War wanted Wright's regiment (3rd Georgia), armed with Enfields since it had just reenlisted for the war. I don't know if they got them. According to Larry Daniel's Soldering in the Army of Tennessee, only 3,760 of the 4,500 sent west got to A.S. Johnston, the 2nd Arkansas Infantry and 1st Arkansas Battalion were among the western units to get arms from that shipment. Another 2,000 were sent to him in Feb. 1862 from the steamer Kate. the 5th Kentucky, 17th & 20th Tennessee and parts of the 6th Mississippi were issued those. Daniels thinks that Johnston's army at Shiloh had about 6,500 Enfields at the start of battle.

Will MacDonald

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

Could not find the other photos that I mentioned, but came across this one.

[roundshot]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

And here's Corporal Mortimer Bland from SC, also wearing a double breasted frock like the first photo Andrew sent in.

[DBURT]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

As can be seen the snake 'hook' belt as the British military termed it seems to have been in plentiful supply. It was issued as part of the accoutrement set sent in by Huse from SIC&Co and Ross & Co. But it seems in many cases to have been issued on its own. Here are some photos I took in the MOC. One is of a 'buff' cavalry belt, and the other an enlistedmans belt. Both are unmarked.

Dave Burt

[DBURT]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this fascinating thread. I do have one last request though. Does anyone have any pitures of original CS used English equipage they would like to share?
Am particularly interested in the cap pouch and ball bag. I have photos of all the British equipment in the MOC, Atlanta History Center and the SCCRR & Museum; but if anyone has further photos from other museums' or private collections they would like to share...

Thanks in advance

Dave Burt

[Iron Scout]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

Dave,

Please look under my albums for some interesting English items. Those pictures look awful familiar from the MOC! Attached please find an un-named Johnny with a full set of accoutrements including ballbag.

Neill Rose
Iron Scouts
Palmetto Guards

[DBURT]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

Hi Neill, great photo. One thing I am looking for at the moment is the date the angled cap pouch was introduced into the British Army; the LOC's only go back to 1859.

Dave Burt

[Enfield]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

Will,

What is the reference to the 5th Ky. getting Enfields from the Kate? The 5th was not one of the regiments that was issued Enfields just before Shiloh - the regiment took Enfields and other rifle-muskets from Iowa troops that they captured at the rear of the Hornets Nest, to replace their inferior smoothbores and Belgian rifles that they carried into the battle. Were they then issued Kate Enfields later? I've not seen this in the regimental/brigade records. Is this in Daniel's book (my library is currently packed up for a move)?

Thanks,

Geoff Walden

Dave,

You may find this and the next page interesting:

http://ebooks.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moawar;cc=moawar;idno=waro0006;q1=A.R.%20Wright;view=image;seq=332;size=100;page=root

Seems the Sec. of War wanted Wright's regiment (3rd Georgia), armed with Enfields since it had just reenlisted for the war. I don't know if they got them. According to Larry Daniel's Soldering in the Army of Tennessee, only 3,760 of the 4,500 sent west got to A.S. Johnston, the 2nd Arkansas Infantry and 1st Arkansas Battalion were among the western units to get arms from that shipment. Another 2,000 were sent to him in Feb. 1862 from the steamer Kate. the 5th Kentucky, 17th & 20th Tennessee and parts of the 6th Mississippi were issued those. Daniels thinks that Johnston's army at Shiloh had about 6,500 Enfields at the start of battle.

Will MacDonald

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

Here is another photo of a Confederate wearing a English belt. Could not find a name, but he is said to be from Texas.

[PenPusher]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

David,

Came across this while looking for something else, a letter to the Gettysburg NPS might elicit contact details or or hopefully someone with the Civil War Times Illustrated, May 2006 may be kind enough to scan and load it.

"By Jeffrey Grable on December 3, 2009 4:30 PM
My mother's great-grandfather fought with the 61st GA in Co.C "Wiregrass Rifles". He lost his left arm in the first day's fighting at Gettysburg but had a previous wound at Sharpsburg. I have a photo of him in uniform with his 2 band Enfield and full English accoutrement, which I submitted to the "Wall of Faces" at Gettysburg and I later submitted a short article on him to Civil War Times Illustrated. Following the war he fathered 9 children and accumulated 9,900 acres of land in Calquitt County, GA. Not bad for a one armed man!" http://www.yorkblog.com/cannonball/2...gians-who.html

[DBURT]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

Thank you Alan,

I will try to find that photo; it just gives yet more evidence that a good number of companies - perhaps the whole of the 61st GA were issued English accoutrements. IF ANYONE HAS A COPY OF THIS ARTICLE WITH THE PICTURE FROM THE CIVIL WAR TIMES ILLUSTRATED FROM MAY 2006, AND THEY WOULD BE KIND ENOUGH TO SHARE IT...PLEASE DO.

Thanks in advance,

Dave Burt

[DBURT]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

Found him, he is on page 12 of 'Faces Of Gettysburg Photographs from the Gettysburg National Military Park Library'. His name is George F. Newton, Co C 61st GA, wounded in the elbow and captured. his arm was amputated by Union surgeons. He is wearing a snake belt, and English pouch; can't see if he is wearing a ball bag or cap pocket. He is armed with a P60 'short' Enfield with sabre bayonet.

Dave Burt

[David Fox]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

Doubtless dumb question, but the photo of the fella brandishing a shotgun wearing a snake buckle (above) prompts me to ask: any odds snake buckles were PRODUCED in the Confederacy? After all, vaguely like buckles were U.S. issue prior to mid-19th Century.

[DBURT]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

David,

The snake buckle was produced by Southern firms, and for the most part were pretty crude copies, usually being a lot thinner than the English version. There is an example of one in 'Collecting the Confederacy' by Shannon Prithcard.

Dave Burt

[Mark Susnis]

Re: Soldiers wearing English accoutrements

Understand that the primary intent of this thread is the CS use of English accoutrements however
check out the English Ball Bag that Tim Prince of College Hill Arsenal has for sale. Also
a neat pic and close up of Soldiers from the 6th MA wearing the English gear.

http://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/product.php?productid=730&cat=1&page=1

v/r
Mark Susnis