LACo Enfield

[RNMCSA]

I have spent the last three days reading article after article and multiple posts on various Forums and have not found a definitive answer on this. So I am hoping the experts here can help. My question is would it be correct to have Confederate inspector marks on a LACo Enfield? I know three days of searching is not very much however with my schedule and all the other research I am trying to do at the same time to get it right, I am asking for help.

Roy N. Maddox

[4VADRUMMER]

Re: LACo Enfield

Roy, I understand that the type III, London Arms Co. P-53 was one of the most common firearms imported by the Confederacy. So to answer your question, yes it would be proper to have C.S. inspector marks.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: LACo Enfield

I did a Yahoo search on "London Armory Enfield" and got some hits from antiquearmsinc.com. I believe that had examples of type 3 and 4 LACo Enfields on their site that would show inspection marks.

[RNMCSA]

Re: LACo Enfield

Thank you for the replies Sirs,
John, I had the same results none of those seem to have Confederate marks though or I am missing it. I was trying to find the JS over an Anchor mark if anyone knows of documented type III's with that mark I would love to hear about it.

[4VADRUMMER]

Re: LACo Enfield

Roy, you should PM Todd Watt's about this. He is the man when it comes to Enfields.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: LACo Enfield

Hallo!

Sorry to be slow... Day 19 of CICU duties with my father in Cleveland.

"My question is would it be correct to have Confederate inspector marks on a LACo Enfield?"

Without getting into a discussion of the "JS" or long stroke "U" "US" stamp... ;) :)

The answer is yes.

Part of it arises out of the Confederate need to account for varied purchases from a nunber of suppliers/sources, the Confederates devised a scheme or system of codes that identified shipments as well as whether the CS Government or individual CS states owned the contents. These were NUG a diamond with a letter or letter sinside like a War Department WD, or a Joseph Brown JJB, or Louisiana L. Plus several that are unknown such as C's or Z's. As well as what are thought to be lot numbers, expressed as three or four digit "serial" numbers on the butt tangs.

Most of the exported arms into the CSA came through the "services" of Sinclair, Hamilton & Company (often stamped SH over C) and S. Isaac, Campbell, & Company (stamped IC). And sometimes, rarely an CH over I for Caleb Huse. These are stamped behind the trigger guard or near near the butt tang. They are NUG in circle half the size of a dime and so shallow they ar eoften gone.
The CSA also relied on five major suppliers in the arms trade who acted as "purchasers' for teh CS agents such as Huse: Their procured arms were stamped with a capital letter in the corner of the stock in front of the butt tang: B for Bond, F for Freed & Co., J for James, K for Kerr, and
S for Scott & Son.

Some of the arms belonging to individual CSA states carried their own letter coding as well. Some arms bought by Georgia and South Carolina a captial G for Georgia and SC for South Carolina stamped on the obverse of the butt in letters between a nickel and a quarter.

Because of the Federal government, and largely due to Huse not being able to get funding or intrest anyone in Confederate bonds, LA Co Enfields were largely unattainable in any significant quantity until at least mid 1863 when Huse was able to secure than "Erlanger loan" and make a contract for purchases starting in May of 1863. Huse had hoped to actually buy the old London Armoury factory at BErmondsey when they moved to Victoria Park Mills in April 1863, and staff it with Confederate inspectors directly. That never happened.

Problems delayed the Enfields from the LA Co contract until spring of 1864, possibly due to the flood of Austrian arms in the summer and fall of 1863.

Again, being too brief in a complicated and still often mysterious, not deeply well known area.

Curt

[RNMCSA]

Re: LACo Enfield

Heir Schmidt,
Thank you for your response it helps tremendously.

[Enfield]

Re: LACo Enfield

Here are documented examples to support the speculation. From my Enfield database:

P53/3, L.A.Co., 1861, buttplate number 7349
P53/3, L.A.Co. 1861, buttplate number 8450
P53/3, L.A.Co. (has an incorrect lock, dated 1862), buttplate number 830
(none of these guns had the JS-anchor)

P53 Artillery Carbine, L.A.Co. (possibly) - JS-anchor behind the triggerguard tang
(I don't remember what the "possibly" means on this one - I don't have the data sheets here.)

Geoff Walden

[RNMCSA]

Re: LACo Enfield

Interesting, if I understand what I have read so far correctly the buttplate numbers were rack numbers (a common practice on military weopons today) this would be documented to the soldier when issued to him. A shame most or all of those records were lost or destroyed. I really need to get my hands on some good books on the subject, Im afraid with what I have spent already on research material and uniform items my wife may get a little hostile. So again I thank all of you for your responses and welcome any other information anyone has.

[Jimmayo]

Re: LACo Enfield



This is an example of engraved inventory numbers. It is not a rack number. This is from a EP Bond Enfield. They would sometime also contain a letter and number.


This is a rack or soldier number. The regimental information (46th Mass) is also on the butt plate but the rack number is 12.

[RNMCSA]

Re: LACo Enfield

Jim,
That does make a differance seems the standard here is there is no standard. I believe from what I have found out so far between my own research and the feed back I have recieved here, I will not FARB my Rifle by trying to DEFARB it with the inspector marks I am interested in. Of course once again something that started out as a question about a piece of gear prior to purchass has lead me on a whole new path of study and understanding. I love this and appreciate everyones help.