Nondescript Buckles

[Chuck Winchester]

Confederate General Service Plates, by Lon W. Keim has this to say about non-descript belt buckles; "The Confederate supply department resigned itself to the necessity of outfitting its men as quickly and cheaply as possible. This called for the mass production of accoutrement plates (sic) that were simple but sturdy. To Conserve metal, these nondescript plates (sic) were smaller than the forked tongue and fixed tongue frame buckles. However, their construction leaves no doubt that they were intended to support the weight of a leather accoutrement belt. Wartime photographs and field recoveries indicate that these were probably the most common C.S. produced plates, particularly during the final two years of the conflict." He shows a photo. of a trooper wearing a waistbelt with this buckle and an orginal saber belt with one. He shows eight examples on pp. 318-322.
My question is, since these seem to be quite common, is anyone reproducing them. I've never seen anyone wearing one nor have I seen them in any uniform standards. I suspect they are also a civilian item. I have one that came from an early 19th Cent. plantation site and in fact two of those in the above mentioned work are from sites ca. 1800. The wartime buckles appear to be heavier cast. I don't have the capability to post a picture but if anyone else has the book and can post pix. please do. Briefly, it is 44mm X 65 mm and is a plain cast brass frame buckle with a single brass wire tongue. It seems if they were as common as Mr. Kiem claims then we should see them represented in the hobby. Perhaps we could convince Hanover Brass to make them.
Chuck Winchester
Critter Co.

[JimKindred]

Re: Nondescript Buckles

Chuck,

Let me first say that other than myself you are the first person I have seen on the forum reference Keim's book on Confederate accoutrement plates. This is an excellent source of information with a great many photos many of which show how the buckle was sewn to the belt.

It is not so much a problem of getting some one to make them as it is finding a market for them once they are made. It is great to make buckles such as this but once they are made the maker needs to be able to sell them. Unfortunately there has been no demand for them.

[firstexas]

Re: Nondescript Buckles

Gentlemen,

I would love to get a copy of Keim's book. Do you know where I could obtain one? Thank you.

Best Regards, Bill.

[JimKindred]

Re: Nondescript Buckles

Bill,

Try Shiloh Relics, http://www.shilohrelics.com/, Rafael may have a copy left. I bought mine from him several years ago. If he doesn't have a copy he may be able to point you in the right direction.

This is the complete information if case you want to look on a used book site -

Keim, Lon W., MD, Confederate General Service Accoutrement Plates, Moss Publicatons, Orange, VA, 1987

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Nondescript Buckles

Can anyone provide an image or drawing of these plates?

[JimKindred]

Re: Nondescript Buckles

I can later this evening. These are buckles rather than plates. Rectangular with a center bar.

[VMI88]

Re: Nondescript Buckles

I believe Butch Myers produces belts using these buckles. He has much of his hardware custom cast, and some he even makes himself. I doubt he would be interested in supplying the buckles, but if you're looking for articles made using them, he's your man!

[Jimmayo]

Re: Nondescript Buckles

Havn't got the book but is this the buckle you are referring to?

[roundshot]

Re: Nondescript Buckles

Check Blockade Runner if you want a buckle like this. http://www.blockaderunner.com/Catalog/catpg10.htm

Bob Williams

[firstexas]

Re: Nondescript Buckles

Bill,

Try Shiloh Relics, http://www.shilohrelics.com/, Rafael may have a copy left. I bought mine from him several years ago. If he doesn't have a copy he may be able to point you in the right direction.

This is the complete information if case you want to look on a used book site -

Keim, Lon W., MD, Confederate General Service Accoutrement Plates, Moss Publicatons, Orange, VA, 1987

Thank you Jim!!

Take care, Bill.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Nondescript Buckles

I have similar examples from a North Caroilina camp and works in Wilmington.

[Chuck Winchester]

Re: Nondescript Buckles

I have similar examples from a North Caroilina camp and works in Wilmington.
Garrison,
that's a nice set of buckles. Looks like a cav. camp from the variety of harness/tack buckles (not to mention the carbine sling buckle). I'd love to see some of those reproduced.

Jim M.,
that's not the buckle I'm looking for. It's a simple rectangle with the center bar dropped slightly below the plain of the rest of the buckle. The orientation is vertical rather than horizontal like the snake tongue buckle that's being reproduced. Actually the one you show looks like half of the buckle I'm referring to. If I can figure out how to post a picture on here I'll do it. The Rev. War folks have reproduced a similar but lighter buckle. I may use that until I can have one made. Perhaps if enough people would commit to buying one of these we could get them reproduced. I don't know what the number needed would be to make it worth someone's while. There are plenty of guys out there that work with people who can cast it up. It's just a matter of going out on the limb financially to do it. If not enough people will buy them, it's a wasted investment, so to speak!
Chuck Winchester

[brown]

Re: Nondescript Buckles

I am aware that this is a very old post, but I was wondering if anyone had gotten anywhere on it. Has anyone found these in reproduction? As a matter of fact, where could I view a icture of an original, other than the work citied above?
Thanks for the updates.
Lindsey

[jgr1974]

Re: Nondescript Buckles

Old post, but always an interest! I am a huge fan of frame and nondescript buckles!I was able to obtain a copy of Keim book last fall! I love it! If you find one, they run about $125, anything under this is a steal!!! I found mine on ebay, and I see them occasionally. To search type in Lon Keim-do advanced search!!!

Moderators-not a plug! I am learning the accouterment making business slow but sure. I am trying to make more obscure items other venders do not. Many are one of a kind items. I have been studying books, and found than many of the "modern" manufacturers of harness buckles. Many are similar if not identical!!! Most of the CW accouterment makers were harness makers before the war started. They used the hardware they had on hand.

If anyone has interests please pm me!!!

Jeremy
The Mad Mick!

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Nondescript Buckles

I have similar examples from a North Caroilina camp and works in Wilmington.

Here are the buckles I originally posted. The numbers are pre-GPS, GIS reference points for a survey.