Big soldiers & depot clothing

[J.Whitley]

Gents,

As a considerably larger than average reenactor, I've been wondering about this for some time. From what I understand, Confederate depot jacket sizes cut off somewhere around a 40 or a 42. I presume, based on this, that stocks of caps, shoes, etc were similarly sized. Is it authentic for someone like me, who is on the far end of the bell curve for everything from headgear to footwear, to wear depot clothing? Or imported shoes, even. Would this have been a case where the commutation system was relied upon?

[4VADRUMMER]

Re: Big soldiers & depot clothing

Jim, there is evidence to suggest that the depot system did in fact take orders for the clothing needs of the larger fellows. Here is a short article covering the subject from Blue and Grey marching. http://www.blueandgraymarching.com/a...t-please-.html

They had big guys in the ranks back then just the same as today. It was a priority of the army to have the men properly clothed in the ranks no matter how big. Now if they ever received their uniforms as ordered from the depot is another story. It looks like the command staff did at least made an effort to cloth these men via the depot system.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Big soldiers & depot clothing

I have seen returns somewhere for a request for a special issue for larger CS uniforms. I doubt I will remember where it was but someone else may post the info.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Big soldiers & depot clothing

Hallo!

Correct.

The Federal Depot system, which the Confederates largely tried to copy after 1862, was based on a concept of four standard sizes, and those standard four sizes in (set by contract) proportions in every batch (NUG Sizes 2 and 3 dominating).

However, Schuylkill Arsenal maintained a Special Clothing Bureau that would do say, blouse sizes 5-7 or 8. And would also do unusually small i.e., less than Size 1; or overly large, over Size 8 when it came to blouses. Same concept for other items.

The key is that these did not come in the field parcels, and had to to depend upon them being first requisitioned, and THEN making their way to the filed to be matched up with the soldier needing them.

Commutation System items are a bit easier. In brief and to over-generalize, if you as a soldier were getting your own clothing say from home, obviously it would be to your last size your kinfolk knew to make to have made. If, items or articles were group-purchased for you, they would or could have been sized accordingly as part of the process.

Curt

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Big soldiers & depot clothing

Jim W.-- I sympathize with you sir. I am on the bigger/taller end of the spectrum myself. And that is something that guys like us are often thinking about when standing next to fellow reenactors that are 5'-9" and 140 pounds. But there were in pretty much every regiment at least taller than average soldiers. And probably in rare cases heavier guys.

I was just reading some letters from a soldier in the 26th Wisconsin and he was telling his wife that her brother,(also in the regiment) was constantly eating and not to fear about him as he was gaining rather than losing weight since they left home. Now this was while they were in winter quarters and not on campaign mind you but the reference is there. And just last night I was looking over the pension records of two uncles in the 11th and 13th Iowa Infantries and I was surprised to see they were listed as 6-1" and 6'-4" tall on their service records.

[rpierson]

Re: Big soldiers & depot clothing

Jim,

Honest feedback can be difficult to come by, especially on a topic as touchy as this. That said, I'll give it a whirl.

Aesthetics play a huge role in this hobby; it's the reason "farbs" are shunned and full size cannons are preferable to 1/2 scale guns. Nobody NEEDS a full scale gun for its increase in offensive and defensive killing power, but folks prefer them because they look just like the ones you see in old photographs and museums etc. That logic can be applied across the board to almost every part of reenacting. Well, almost.

Plus-sized reenactors present themselves and the hobby at large with a sticky dilemma. I have noted that while bigger gents in this authentic wing of the hobby wouldn't suffer a machine sewn buttonhole on a reproduction garment, they care little that the very same garment is a size 50. They fixate on one of the physically smallest details of a garment (a buttonhole), meanwhile manage to overlook the much bigger (pun intended) picture.

Big guys have every right to pretend that they are Civil War soldiers. They are no more or less CW soldiers than smaller reenactors. We are all NOT Civil War soldiers.

But... they just don't look like CW soldiers. It's exactly the same way a 1/2 scale Parrott rifle doesn't look right - only reversed.

IMO there are other CW impressions that accommodate a large build better than that of a soldier.

-Randall Pierson

[J.Whitley]

Re: Big soldiers & depot clothing

Gentlemen,

Thank you very much for the replies. The information is excellent.

Randall, I appreciate your honesty. Please don't interpret this as me being defensive; heaven knows I could stand to lose thirty pounds, and hopefully will, after I get my medical problems under control. But, that will not change the fact that I'm 6'4", wear a size 14 1/2 shoe, a size 8 hat, and have never weighed less than 230 pounds in my adult life. That's more of what I was referring to.

[Coatsy]

Re: Big soldiers & depot clothing

Please Note: Please stick to Jim's orignial topic, Thanks.

[Bob McDonald]

Re: Big soldiers & depot clothing

Jim:

During the 1980's and early 1990's, I collected original CS enlisted infantry "cloth", the first acquired of which was a Department of Alabama shell jacket. This is the standard depot pattern of jeans with a very deep blue applied facing on the collar, a single belt loop, and four-hole wood buttons. My point is that I recall being notably struck by the jacket's large size, which I would estimate to be at least a 46 chest. In fact, there is an existent regulation double-breasted EM frock coat that was found with the DoA jacket, as was a near-matching "suit" that resides in a UK collection, consisting of a shell jacket and trousers. All three coats and the one trousers were found together, and all were similarly large in size.

I hope this is of assistance.


Sincerely,

Bob McDonald

[Cameron]

Re: Big soldiers & depot clothing

Not sure abouy the CS system of supply but this US guy seemed to get outfitted properly. Granted he is not tall but he is rather robust in the belly region. Photo from the mathew brady collection

[Pvt. Shattuck]

Re: Big soldiers & depot clothing

Fat soldiers are so rare in the CW I collect pictures of them. Here are a few:

[CompanyWag]

Re: Big soldiers & depot clothing

At the risk of veering too far off the OP's question...I see these images of corpulent soldiers and I wonder how they were really viewed (or judged) within the 19th century context. In other more primitive cultures, being a person of greater girth was a sign of affluence and something to be admired. I remember not too long ago within my memory, a decidedly fat baby was considered a "healthy" baby. Today we look at these images and we see remarkably fat or even obese individuals, but I wonder if their fellow pards simply thought of them as strapping, robust, well-fed fellows.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Big soldiers & depot clothing

Found one source.

http://www.blueandgraymarching.com/articles/dear-richmond-depot-please-.html