picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

[David Jarnagin]

I found this picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg on the LOC site and there were several odd things in the picture. The difference in sword belt plates that included one styled like the 1840’s plates which can be seen on the left. The rest of the plates were 5 three piece wreath 1851 plates, four one piece wreath 1851 plates and two which I could not tell. You can see all three styles of plates in the attached picture. The other odd thing was only one of the troopers is using his shoulder strap and he is in the picture.

What is your thoughts?

David Jarnagin
djarnagin@bellsouth.net

[Mississippian]

Re: picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

Nice Image!

Is it just me, or do their jackets seem to have an unusual trim on them?

Will MacDonald

[Cumpston1862]

Re: picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

The variety of beltplates IMHO attests that the soldiers North and South wore what was comfortable and appealing to each one of them. Which is why I think its hard to pinpoint what a given unit was wearing at a given time exactly.

The trim on the uniforms looks to be a field modification. The collars on the cavalry and artillery jackets were considerded by many soldiers to be too tall and chaffed their skin in many accounts I have read so they cut them down. Having said that the soldier in the bottom left corner looks to have left his jacket as issued...with the high collar intact (note the buttons).

[wavey1us]

Re: picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

I like the bill configuration of several of the troopers.

[Tom Craig]

Re: picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

Hey all,
This one is a classic picture of a group of cavalrymen. Notice that the three guys standing with sabres also each have sabre knots, and this is '64. There also appears to be two different variations of cap pouch on the three men standing. Based on the uniformity of the collars of the three men standing, I would wonder if those were some sort of Indiana state issue/purchase jackets? They all have the same collars, complete with trim.

The odd sword belt plate is something of a mystery, as it is pretty rare that you'd see that. The guys not wearing shoulder straps doesn't surprise me. You see plenty of troopers who left them off. I obviously don't carry heavy bullets in my cartridge box, but I gave up my shoulder belt years ago and have never looked back.

Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[rbruno]

Re: picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

I am going to go with Tom on the jackets. It appears that the guy on the left has trim on his jacket that is different then the other two that are standing. The trim looks a lot smaller almost like piping and not the tape trim. The differences in belts is very interesting. Great photo.

[David Jarnagin]

Re: picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

Here is another view of the same picture. All the other cap pouches in the picture are of the 1850 except for the shield front with the CO K scratched in the flap. Everyone that you can see has a sabre knot a couple on the other end are a little bit strange.

David Jarnagin

[CompanyWag]

Re: picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

I agree...this first jacket looks piped rather than tape-trimmed. Also there appears to be 10 buttons on the front. Of the other two jackets on the right, both have tape trim but the 2nd also has 10 buttons and the last one has a 12-button front. Sounds like something more than just a field modification of the collar, but 1864 seems a little late for state-issued clothing remaining in the field. Private purchase perhaps? Does anyone else think it odd that the presumably yellow tape is light colored in the image whereas yellow usually shows up dark and hard to see in period photographic emulsions?

[CompanyWag]

Re: picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

On David's 2nd photo, the only two jackets that have buttons present on the collar (and presumably are federal issue jackets) also display dark trim as expected in period photos of yellow trim. Pure speculation, but could the other oddball jackets be trimmed in another color than yellow?

[David Jarnagin]

Re: picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

I finally had time to get the rest of the photo posted.


This first one shows the officer and 3 enlisted men. The sabre knot on two of them are blackened buff and the third is just odd. Note the snaps on one of the sword belts.



Here is the last image.

I thought the whole image was a very neat.

David Jarnagin

[Cumpston1862]

Re: picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

All points raised are certainly plausible. The possibility of the jackets being some kind of state issued jackets is possible but not likely in 1864. Perhaps they field modified their regulation issued jackets based on their favored early war state jackets?

Just to stir the pot a bit...and sorry I am not good with links or attachments but if you do a search of the book "A Damned Iowa Greyhound" about William Henry Harrison Clayton from the 19th Iowa Infantry look at the picture on the cover. He is wearing a regulation issued frock coat and it has a low collar too. I can't remember now but I believe that picture is after his release from Camp Ford, Texas in 1864. Maybe that is a field modification or some kind of private purchase.

[Mark Choate]

Re: picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

David,

You have really given us a treat with this tread and these photos. What classic examples of Fed cavalrymen from the mid-west. I cannot add anything more to the good commentary that has been given thus far, but I have been zooming in and looking at these in detail. Superb!

On a related note, would you or the others have any photos of the 4th Iowa cav, perchance? We are portraying them at Westville "Surrender of Seccession" and I would love to see some. Did a search but did not find anything. Oh, and the later in the war the better.

thanks,

Mark

[kaelin]

Re: picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

I hate to do this, its one of my pet peeves, can't resist...
I am at work and the information is not in front of me...but a group of us have studied Indiana uniforms in certain areas in great detail and other areas loosely. Indiana did in fact have "unique jackets". They were of a zouave pattern much like what you see here in this image. The jackets unique style was in the short collar or collarless, west point pattern body (4 or 6), D shaped sleeve allowing for full range of motion and use of the arms, 10 or 12 button front. These jackets were voted on by each individual regiment and paid for out of their monthly pay, average costs were $6-7 each privately made. The dates on these jackets range from late 63 all the way through the end of the war. It is very common to find that these jackets were received after their furlough(63), some call them "veteran jackets" to set them apart from the fresh fish.

Notice in the image, 2 of the jackets are 10 button, 1 is 12 button. Soldier sitting bottom left corner is wearing a MSJ.

[rbruno]

Re: picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

Man, I could stare at this picture all day. Can anyone tell what kind of sabre the officer is carrying? It has a different basket shape then the 1860/1840 sabre and looks like the metal starts to go down the back of the handle below the cap and not just a plain cap like the '60/'40 sabre. Also it has the little curve piece where the issue sabre is just flat piece at the hilt. I wish I knew my saber parts names better, but just check out the basket and you can see. Also looks a little straighter in the blade then the curve of the US sabres. Is it French or British import? Also, the officer is maybe wearing shoes where all the troopers are in boots. You can see the laces just below his pants. So many things to check out.

[Utley]

Re: picture of the 3rd Indiana Cavalry from Petersburg

In the first pic posted, the guy standing at the top left has a "CS" belt plate on..... I may not be the first who has noticed this, but wanted to mention it.