P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle

[DBURT]

I have seen quite a few British P1860 ball bags on my travels, but I ave yet to see anywhere the accompanying oil bottle. I have seen some fakes on ebay, but my question is. Has anyone seen or knows where there is an extant oil bottle that has definite provenance to the Civil War? I cannot remember seeing one with any certain provenance, and so any help or pointers would be of enourmous help.

Dave Burt

[LeatherHead]

Re: P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle

Resting quietly in a small eBay lot of miscellaneous dug relics said to be from the Spottsylvania, VA, area was the brass collar and cap of an English oil bottle, unremarked upon by the seller. The body was totally gone; zinc generally does not hold up well in the ground. It went to the earlier type bottle with seams, built up from flat stock. The caps of the seamed style are noticeably heavier/larger than those of the later, seamless second style. The repros are of the seamed style, and are extremely well made and with a little bit of massaging are indistinguishable from the originals. Caveat Emptor...

Dean Nelson
1st MD Infantry, CSA, N-SSA
descended from Pvt. Alston Houston, Co. H, 30th VA Infantry; the Sparta Greys

[DBURT]

Re: P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle

Thanks for that Dean. Most of the bottles imported would have been the type with the seam and the LOC's do not list it being changed to the seamless variety until the middle of 1862. Given that it took an age for the contractors to change the pattern these were most prevalent. Is this item still on ebay, or anywhere now?

Dave Burt

[LeatherHead]

Re: P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle


My first try on posting a photo here....Center is the dug-up oil cap, set on a .45-70 case to make it the same level as the others. Left is an original seamed oiler, right is an original List of Changes 1862 oiler. The dug one, more favors the seamed oiler, though with most English items, there is quite a latitude within general types...

Dean Nelson
1st Maryland Infantry, CSA, N-SSA

[DBURT]

Re: P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle

That's a great picture Dean, thanks. I have never seen the top on the right before, but have seen the one in the middle on seamed containers. It's also good evidence that the seamless P1862 oiler made it in as well. Do any of the pictured bottles have any provenance. And do you know where the excavated cap was unearthed?

Dave Burt

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle

Here is an example for sale on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-CIVIL-WAR-ERA-ENFIELD-RIFLE-GUN-OILER-PEWTER-BODY-BRASS-CAP-IRON-WICK-/321017005135?pt=LH_DefaultD

[DBURT]

Re: P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle

Robert,
I'm quite sure that that is one of the 'fakes' I mentioned on my first post. Someone goes to a lot of trouble to artificially age reproductions.

Dave Burt

[LeatherHead]

Re: P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle


The left oil bottle is made up from flat zinc sheet that is rolled, side-seamed and fitted with the cast brass top disk with threaded collar. A zinc disk is set in the bottom. If a lower melting point zinc is used to close the seams, technically it it a "weld" because it is of the same metal as that which it joins. If it is a lead/tin solder then it is a "solder". I do not know the identity of the joining metal here. This example is 2.135 or so inches tall and .975-.995 inches in diameter. It lacks an accompanying provenance.
The right oiler body is seamless, made from deep drawn zinc with a brass top disk/collar set in. Zinc was extremely hard to work without cracking and this simple drawn container was at the time a metal working tour-de-force. It is 2.70 inches tall, .980 inches at the top tapering to .960 inches at the bottom. This taper enabled withdrawal of the formed body from the dies. No background on this one, either.

The dug brass cap is said to have been recovered in vicinity Spottsylvania, VA, and was among a large miscellaneous lot of dig-ups.

Dean Nelson
1st Mary Infantry, CSA, N-SSA

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle

Robert,
I'm quite sure that that is one of the 'fakes' I mentioned on my first post. Someone goes to a lot of trouble to artificially age reproductions.

Dave Burt

Taking a second look, it does appear to be artificially aged. There is no even patina to it.

[DBURT]

Re: P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle

Dean, many thanks for the pictures and the information. I was never sure that the P62 seamless variety made it to the Confederates in time as it was not introduced until 23rd April 1862, submitted by a Mr A. Warner of Threadneedle St, London. Since the manufacturers were not selling to the British government I wasn't sure that the makers would have altered from the old seamed pattern to the new one. But now I know they must have. Thanks Dean,

Dave Burt

[LeatherHead]

Re: P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle


Bottom view.....

Dean Nelson
1st Maryland Infantry, CSA, N-SSA

[DBURT]

Re: P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle

Dean,
Just one more question. Did the originals have a leather gasket on the top of the bottle? The ones in the photos do not seem to have any.

Dave Burt

[LeatherHead]

Re: P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle

The seamless oil bottle retains its leather washer; it is a small diameter disk, centrally holed, that goes over the iron "feather" (dip stick) and up all the way to the top of the female threaded cap.
The seamed oiler is missing the washer, but there is a brownish residue in the very top of the threaded cap that I feel is a vestige of the missing leather, rather than just dried oil.

Hope this is of interest.

Dean Nelson
1st Maryland Infantry, CSA, N-SSA

[DBURT]

Re: P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle

Thank you very much Dean. I thought they must have been issued with the leather washer as I have seen residue marks in one other original, but that too had got lost.

Dave Burt

[DBURT]

Re: P1860 Enfield Oil Bottle

A supplementary question for Dean or anyone else who might have any information.
Has anyone seen a brass oil bottle at all anywhere? These were EXACTLY the same as the P60 and P62 but made completely of brass. All the invoices I have seen just mention "oil bottles" and not if they were zinc or brass.
The brass ones were not manufactured in England but were made in India for issue to British and Colonial troops serving there. But there could have been some that made their way to the Confederacy?

Dave Burt