Did the 25th Michingin wore Hardee's + where to get them ?

[Johnson]

As the title above says,did the 25th Michigan infantry wore Hardee hats,or were they issued to them ? In Europe we are starting a
group which portrays the 'I' company of the 25th Michigan infantry,which existed out of Dutch immigrants from a town
called "Holland" in Michigan. I was just thinking about it if they actually wore Hardee hats. I haven't saw pictures of the
I company before. If some of you have picture's of the 25th Michigan or the I company in particular I would love to see them !


Many thanks in advance and merry Christmas !,

[Chip42]

Re: Did the 25th Michingin wore Hardee's + where to get them ?

I did a quick search and found as full history of the 25th iGoogle books. I also found this collection of Letters:

http://www.worldcat.org/title/my-country-and-cross-the-civil-war-letters-of-john-anthony-wilterdink-company-i-25th-michigan-infantry/oclc/9002468

The above source might be some help, or at least get you pointed in the right direction

Good luck in your search.

[Johnson]

Re: Did the 25th Michingin wore Hardee's + where to get them ?

Much obliged Sam,this surely will come handy ! I even didn't knew there was a book about the someone from the I company. I'll try to look If I can find
a copy of it here in Europe.

Many thanks !,

[Jeremy Bevard]

Re: Did the 25th Michingin wore Hardee's + where to get them ?

There is a CDV in the Michigan archives of a Fred Carr in a forage cap and sack coat and at the bottom is written 25th Infantry. **However, full disclosure, I don't see a Fred Carr on the online roster of the 25th but some other Carr's. ****

[Bill52]

Re: Did the 25th Michingin wore Hardee's + where to get them ?

Frank.

I study what uniforms were originally issued to Michiang Regiments. By the time the 25th Regiment was formed the federal government was providing the arms and uniforms to the new Michigan regiments. The 25th Michigan Infantry may have received uniforms and arms when the State Quartermaster Colonel Fountain travailed to Washington D.C. to arranged for the federal government to provide for the needs of several new regiments. The supplies were sent through Cleveland, so they must have been dispatched from the east. Michigan unlike many states attempted to provide replacements to her troops in the field. This would mean that any new men would have went to Detroit and been outfitted with uniforms from the Detroit Barracks before they departed for their units. This would mean that the 'new men' would not have had the same uniforms as the rest of the regiment. Before year's end, 1862, The Twenty-fifth Infantry received a large order of Enfield rifle Muskets, caliber .577 and .58, along with non-commissioned officer and Musician swords. In 1863 they received Austrian Rifle Muskets, caliber .54 and .55, leaf and block sights, with quadrangular bayonet, as well as some non-commissioned officer swords and musician swords.. For 1864 they received more Enfields and Springfield Models 1855, 1861 and 1865.

That said, Company I used only the Enfield Rifle Muskets until late 1864. These are the numbers: Dec 31 1862 70 Enfield, Dec 31 1863 56 Enfields, Mar. 31 1864 42 Enfields. June 30 1864 35 Enfields, Sept 30 1864 24 Enfields, Dec 32 2864 26 Enfields and 4 U.S. Rifle Muskets.

If you need any newspaper articles on the 25th Infantry let me know. I live walking distance form the State Library which has almost all the available Michigan Civil War era newspapers. I will be in Florida for the next two months, but after that I would be able to send you copies of any news articles you might need. Holland Michigan is a very nice town.

Major Bill

[Johnson]

Re: Did the 25th Michingin wore Hardee's + where to get them ?

Many thanks for your information Bill !,this surely will come handy in my research. If you can send it (I sended my e-mail adress in pm ;-) ) that would be perfect. If you come along of some photographs,letters,rosters and other things related to the 25th,or the I company in paticular,you can also send it to me through e-mail. Through all the books I read about equipment of the Civil War I didn't saw a lot about musician swords. Were they also used in the field by the musicians ? Same for the NCO's . And was the 25th Michigan issued sack or frock coats (and which contract ?) ? Or are there any books avaible were it describes what they were issued ?

Have you been to Holland Michigan before ? Still Dutch influence there ? Just curious :)

Kind regards,

[Bill52]

Re: Did the 25th Michingin wore Hardee's + where to get them ?

There is a book that has a roster for this regiment, Travis, Benjamin F., The Story of the Twenty-fifth Michigan by B. F. Travis, Lieutenant. Kalamazoo, Kalamazoo pub. co., 1897. Once I have the roster, you will be able to look up the names in what is know as the "Michigan Brown Books" (These are on the web and I can get the web site) which will give names enlistment dates, discharge dates and other information. There is also a web site on Michigan in the Civil War which would have a roster of Company I. Also Michigan had twenty Civil War era newspapers that are available to today but only four daily newspapers. The two Detroit daily newspapers are indexed. If I have time before I leave Michigan for the winter, I will see what news articles are available for the 25th Infantry, it will probably be 30 or more articles.

Holland is a port on Lake Michigan. Lake Michigan is an inland sea, hundreds of ships have been lost in storms on Lake Michigan. Holland has a yearly Tulip celebration, which is actually a Dutch heritage celebration. Part of the city is kind of a tourist attraction, having Dutch wind mills, tulip fields and Dutch restaurants. Holland along with much of the west coast of the that part of Michigan has a Dutch influence even today.

William T. Carr
Company of Military Historians
46th M.P. Company, 144th M.P Company, 146th M.P Battalion, 210th M.P. Battalion, 177th M.P. Brigade.

[Bill52]

Re: Did the 25th Michingin wore Hardee's + where to get them ?

If you go to http://suvcw.org/mi/017/war/michiganbrownbooks.htm you can look up the names and get details on the men. Many of the men appear to have Dutch manes.

25th Michigan Infantry
COMPANY I

OFFICERS
RANK NAME HOME AGE
Captain Dowd, William E. Holland 28
1st. Lieutenant De Boe, Martin Holland 25
2nd Lieutenant Doesburg, Jacob O. Holland 24

ENLISTED MEN
NAME HOME AGE
Abraham, John Ottawa County 18
Adams, Benjamin Holland 29
Adams, Benjamin Holland 29
Albers, John G. Zeeland 25
Allyn, George W. Olive 18
Andrews, Richard M. Holland 31
Barendreght, Hubert Ottawa 28
Beebe, Stephen Grand Rapids 37
Blom, Marinus Holland 21
Blom, William Holland 25
Boot, Otto Holland 19
Bos, Frederick Grand Rapids 43
Bowman, Cornelius Grand Rapids 22
Brouwer, Arend Zeeland 24
Brower, Jan Holland 19
Bursema, Alle Grand Rapids 23
Christian, Cornelius Ottawa County 19
Collins, Samuel L. Grand Rapids 21
Crofoot, Isaiah Holland 26
Crofoot, James H. Holland 20
Crofoot, Joseph Holland 38
De Feyter, Marinus Grand Rapids 40
De Feyter, Peter Holland 18
De Kruif, Geerlinus E. Zeeland 18
Den Herden, Cornelius Zeeland 23
Devereaux, Franklin Holland 31
De Vries, Pieter Holland 19
De Vries, Renke Holland 19
De Vries, Ulke Holland 18
Doesburg, Gerrit S. Grand Rapids 21
Donker, Hendrik Holland 24
Dunmink, John Grand Rapids 24
Dykema, John P. Grand Rapids 20
Dykhuis, Klaas Holland 18
Eding, Albert Grand Rapids 19
Eding, Henry Grand Rapids 21
Ellen, Peter Holland 21
Everhard, John D. Holland 18
Everts, Henry Grand Rapids 20
Frick, William Olive 19
Grebel, Jacob -or- Grand Rapids 25
Greble, Jacob
Grootenhuis, John Holland 20
Hammon, Sylvanus S. Holland 21
Hauer, Thomas Holland 35
Hesselink, Gerrit J. Holland 23
Hoadley, James M. Holland 22
Hoezee, Peter Grand Rapids 34
Horlings, Mense W. Holland 22
Huff, Darwin C. Holland 21
Huizenga, John Zeeland 23
Jansen, Mines Holland 18
Jonkheer, Alexander Zeeland 23
Kamhout, Cornelius Holland 25
Klise, Bermond Grand Rapids 25
Koning, Arie Holland 18
Kramer, John Holland 24
Kreger, John Holland 27
Lebeboer, William G. Holland 18
Lowis, Johannes Grand Rapids 30
McFall, William Holland 24
McRae, Donald Grand Rapids 29
Mulder, Marienes Holland 24
Naber, John Holland 21
Ogden, Nelson W. Ottawa County 18
Oggel, Jan P. Zeeland 34
Ostema, Roelf Holland 30
Pelton, Abraham Holland 32
Pilon, John Holland 20
Post, Charles F. Holland 28
Reenders, Ale Ottawa County 19
Revel, Thomas Holland 24
Rogers, Hiram Grand Rapids 43
Rogers, John Grand Rapids 17
Rookus, Peiter Grand Rapids 25
Rot, Arie Holland 25
Ruppel, John Louisville, Ky 29
Seeley, Louis P. Holland 30
Sherman, James Holland 22
Smits, Jacob Grand Rapids 44
Steketee, John Holland 21
Stegenga, Dirk Grand Rapids 23
Te Sleghte, Hendrick J. Holland 19
Thomson, Jeremiah W. Holland 19
Thomson, Robert F. Holland 32
Tietze, Edward Louisville, Ky 22
Toren, Hendrick -or- Grand Rapids 39
Torne, Hendrick
Van Appledoorn, Wulf Holland 18
Van Dam, Cornelius Holland 19
Van De Luyster, Marinus Zeeland 21
Vanden Beldt, Henry Grand Rapids 18
Van Den Belt, Frederick Holland 26
Vanderbosch, Tanne Grand Rapids 21
Vandervrede, Martin Grand Rapids 42
Vanderzwaag, Bardel Grand Rapids 35
Van Dyk, Hendrick B. Holland 19
Van Leeuwen, Peter Holland 29
Van Lente, Hendricus -or- Grand Rapids 24
Van Lente, Henry
Van Lente, Johannes Holland 23
Van Malsen, Arie Holland 22
Van Putten, Wellen Holland 21
Van Raalte, Benjamin Holland 22
Van Raalte, Dirk B.K. Holland 18
Van Regenmorter, Melgert Holland 24
Van Schelven, Gerrit Holland 19
Vantongeren, Peter G. Grand Rapids 25
Veen, Jan Zeeland 22
Veen, Roelof Zeeland 20
Veneklassen, Petrus Holland 21
Ver Hage, Adrian Ottawa County 18
Ver Planke, Joos Holland 18
Verschure, Pieter Holland 18
Vining, Gustavus Ottawa County 19
Vork, John D. Grand Rapids 22
Vork, Pieter D. Grand Rapids 29
Wakker, Gerritt Grand Rapids 18
Walker, William Holland 20
Wesseling, Geert Zeeland 19
Wilterdink, John A. Holland 22
Wolters, Frederick Holland 23
Woltman, Jurrien Grand Rapids 20

William T. Carr
Company of Military Historians

[Schubert]

Re: Did the 25th Michingin wore Hardee's + where to get them ?

The Story of the Twenty-fifth Michigan by B.F. Travis is online here: http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?i...view=1up;num=3

The Kalamazoo Valley Museum might have portraits of some members of the 25th, the museum did an exhibit of CW portraits earlier in the year. The regiment mustered in Kalamazoo, and the museum has some letters from soldiers in the 25th online.

http://kvm.kvcc.edu/civilwar/tag/25th-michigan-regiment/

[Bill52]

Re: Did the 25th Michingin wore Hardee's + where to get them ?

I visited the Library of Michigan and the following books are at the State of Michigan Library:

My Country and Cross: The Civil War letters of John Anthony Waltedink, Company I, 25 Michigan Infantry,(91 pages long) has his photograph taken September 20 1862 , he is wearing 9-button frock coat (one cuff button above the lower sleeve chevron piping, one below), light blue pants, kepi and standard infantry equipment. Also a photograph of the Holland Michigan Civil War Monument and it shows much the same uniform being worn.

The story of the Twenty-fifth Michigan, B.F. Travis (in rare book room) also on micro film.

The Civil War Letters of Johannes Van Lente, edited by Janice Van Lente Catlin, Yankee Girl Pub. Okemos Mi., 1992.
Letters were written in Dutch and have been translated in to English. Johannes Van Lente photographed with friend at start of the war, wearing 9-button frock coats and light blue pants. Janice Van Lente Catlin may still live in Okemos Michigan and she might be able to provide the original letters to you, that is if you can find her.

The Dutch Churches in Michigan during the Civil War. This book outlines the participation of the Michigan Dutch church during the Civil War. Here are some notes form this book: The Dutch became American citizens as soon as legally possible. In general the church was abolitionist before the Civil War.

On page 7 is a reprint from this which had been was published in Nieuwsbode (the local Dutch language newspaper) no copies of this newspaper from the Civil War era survived today.

issued by Mr. Groolemat of Kalamazoo (Translated from Dutch) I left in the misspellings.

Up ye wakeful sons of Holland,
Burghers of America.
Show yourselfs worthy-
follow the example of your fatherland!
The land you have chosen for your fatherland
To the Union, you swon your troth!
To her you're bound in this hour of need.
Up Bavarians to your weapons!
For the fire of treason is lit.
Lie no longer sleeping
In the fatherland's fateful hour
Crowd ye to the banners
Of the fight for the Union.


William T. Carr
Company of Military Historians

[Johnson]

Re: Did the 25th Michingin wore Hardee's + where to get them ?

Thanks Brent and William for your resources about the 25th ! The book my country and cross is hard to get here in Europe it seems but
if I can find it I'll buy it as soon as possible. Same for the other books. William,do you have any idea how I could find Janice Van Lente Catlin,
just search trhough U.S phone book ? Is she a Dutch speaker or English ? It doesn't make that much of a difference,just curious due of her last
name and the fact she edited the book.

This is the poet you mean right ? I already read it a while ago :P

Op nu Nederlandsch wakkre zonen!
Burgers van Amerika,
Wilt u uwer waardig tonen
Volgt der vad'ren voorbeeld na,
Hebt gij eens dit land verkoren
Voor uw tweede Vaderland,
Aan de Unie trouw gezworen.
U aan haar in nood verpand
Op Bataven! Dan te wapen
Nu het vuur des oproers brandt!
Langer nu niet zitten slapen,
Bij den nood van 't Vaderland!
Schaart u bij de krijgsbanieren
Tot behoud der Union!"


Also any book you guys can recommend to exactly find out what they were issued in clothing and equipment ? I already
got the information about weaponry from Major Bill.


Kind regards,

[Bill52]

Re: Did the 25th Michingin wore Hardee's + where to get them ?

The phone books we now get given do not have people names and number just businesses names and number. I am really not sure if complete phone book exist any more. I would try on line. If she is interested in history you could also contact the Ingham County Historical Society and see if they know who she is. She probably is known to Civil War enthusiast, but I do not know her myself. The area Civil War Round table has disbanded, but I know several people from that group and will ask them about her. I do not know many Dutch speaking people in this area. When I was in the National Guard I almost joined a Dutch speaking Michigan National Guard Civil Affairs Company. All the companies meeting were conducted in Dutch. I scored very high on the army foreign language aptitude test and the company was ready to accept me if I could lean to speak Dutch. The issue was I was a First Lieutenant and the promotion path was limited. I guess instead of going to Japan all the time I would have had to go to the Netherlands instead. Not sure that is a good thing or a bad thing, I was stationed in Germany for 8 months and I guess it was OK, but then I would have never went to Japan.

William T. Carr
Company of Military Historians

[CW Watch Collector]

Re: Did the 25th Michingin wore Hardee's + where to get them ?

My apologies for bending this thread a bit, but I happen to have a pocket watch that was presented in 1862 to a Sergeant, James A. Sage of Otisco, Ionia County, (who was later promoted to 2nd and then 1st Lieutenant) by Company B of the 25th MI. The records of the American Watch Company indicate that the movement of his watch was finished between June 1 and July 31, 1862. The 25th MI Infantry was mustered in late September, 1862. Sage was badly wounded in the thigh at the Battle of Utoy Creek, now part of Atlanta, in August, 1864, but survived the war. James Sage subsequently served as Registrar of Deeds in Otisco, where he was engaged in various businesses. He moved to St. Georges, GA, in 1904 where he became the new town's first Treasurer. He ended his days at the Natl. Soldier's Home in Johnson City, TN and died in 1913. It is interesting that having fought primarily in TN and GA, Sage chose to spend the last 12 years of his life there.