English mess tins w/o cover or knapsack?

[Pelikan]

While there is substantial documentation for the importation of English messtins and covers, is there photographic evidence or other primary sources of their use in the field?

My searches through the LoC pics and other sources hasn't turned anything up, and I'd be very interested what others may have found. There's the fascinating pic of the CS casualty wearing the British sergeant's box, as well as men with snake belts for example, but I haven't seen anything similar for the mess tins.

I'm in NO way saying "they were never used," but rather more interested to see the means of actual carriage by American fighting men:

in the "proper" British manner of the cover attached to the knapsack, or
the cover discarded and the tin slung to the pack through the bail, or
attached to non-Brit knapsacks, or
just the lid or body in a haversack, or
any of the myriad variations and innovations that come up on the march.

[Jimmayo]

Re: English mess tins w/o cover or knapsack?

Did you do a forum search for "english mess tin"? I think there is already some info available. I know I have seen one primary reference where an officer buys a english mess set from the quartermaster in Richmond. I think it has been referenced on the forum in the past also. He didn't say how he was going to carry it.

[DBURT]

Re: English mess tins w/o cover or knapsack?

Steve, Jim is quite right, the only solid evidence there is of Confederate soldiers carrying the British P1854 mess tin is from invoices. One such from June 28th 1864 lists virtually all the officers of the 1st Missouri Brigade buying 'mess tin kits' which presumably consisted of the tin plus cover, being bought by those officers for $1.50 each.
There is another invoice issued through the Richmond Depot which also has various officers buying them again for $1.50 each.
So we know for sure that they were very popular amongst officers, but how they were carried is not known. They were supposed to be carried strapped to the top of the P56 knapsack, but if the officer did not have one then who knows?

There are several in collections which have documentation of belonging to individual soldiers. One belonged to Private Richard Walden of the 17th VA, but again how he carried it, it is not certain.
I too have never seen a picture of a CS soldier with one, so all we have is the documented evidence and a few tins with war-time provenance.

All we know for sure is that they came in from England in their tens of thousands with the P56 knapsack from virtually the beginning of the war with Caleb Huse buying them in bulk through S. Isaac Campbell & Co and Alexander Ross & Co.

Dave Burt

[DBURT]

Re: English mess tins w/o cover or knapsack?

Had a look at my notes. The second invoice was for "1,000 mess tins and covers" which were to be sold to officers in the ANV for $1.50 each on April 26th 1864. These mess tins and covers were sent to Ordnance Officer George Duffey at the "ANV Field Park" at Gordonsville.

So lots of Confederate officers in this late war period - just prior to the Wilderness Campaign in the east- were able to buy them from stores both in the eastern and western theatres.

Dave Burt