Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

[lukegilly13]

Does anyone have dates on when English army cloth arrived in large quantities at the Richmond Depot? Photographic evidence of uniforms can be found in photos of dead soldiers however it does not necessarily show color. For example, looking at the following photo...

http://m.flickr.com/photos/31452667@N05/3039743736/lightbox/

...taken at Gettysburg, the jacket seems much darker and heavier than the trousers. But there's no way to tell. Are there any existing garments made from the English Kersey in existence that date to '62???
It is believed that Longstreets corp was wearing blue gray on their westward trip and during the Knoxville campaign so the cloth had to make it to Richmond before that.

[lukegilly13]

Re: Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

Adding some confusion for discussion...
"The jacket in question was worn by Sergeant E.C.N. Green of the 47th North Carolina State Troops, who was killed 1 July 1863 at Gettysburg (FIG 7). Sergeant Green's jacket is made of a very fine quality cadet gray cloth, and is lined in light brown silesia in the body and light blue cotton in the sleeves. It is trimmed around the collar, on the edges of the shoulder straps and at the cuffs with 1/4" dark blue cotton tape. It has eight large script "I" buttons down the front manufactured by S. Isaacs and Campbell, two small buttons of the same type at the shoulder straps, and two at each non**functioning cuff."
--Company of military Historians, Les Jensen article
This seems to mimic an "RD I" but is believed by Jensen to be a copy made by a tailor. Could this be English cloth and if so, where and how would the tailor have laid hands On it? And if this Taylor could get it, surely RD was.
Was it exported by I&C?

[DBURT]

Re: Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

Luke, looking through my notes the first blue-grey kersey was bought by Caleb Huse in England from S. Isaac Campbell & Co in December 1861. The first really heavy shipments were made by QM Officer Major J.B Ferguson from the Lancashire and Yorkshire woolen mills in April 1863, and arrived in Richmond in July '63. From then on it was shipped in huge quantities. For example in June '64, in just one week, more than 12,000 yards of this cloth was received in Richmond.
But the fact is it was coming in in much smaller quantities from the beginning of 1862 onwards purchased by Huse through SIC&Co.

I hope this is of help.

Dave Burt

[mike44thva]

Re: Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

Dave, I've read your excellent article, and have a question. How LATE in the war was the Blue-Gray Kersey coming into Richmond? Would a pair of BG trousers be issued in '65 since the "blue cloth" for trousers was not to be contracted after the Sept. '64 letter to J.B. Ferguson? Just debating whether to go with BG or Royal Blue trousers.

[DBURT]

Re: Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

Mike, from the notes I have up until the end of 1864 the biggest colour of cloth coming in from England into the Richmond Depot was described as "English Gray Cloth".
This would probably still be the blue-grey cloth, but it is not 100% certain. Also at this time we have the Tait 'Suits' coming in from Ireland. The word 'suits' gives it away as the jackets were of blue-grey kersey so the trousers had to be of the same colour material. So it has to be that lots of trousers at the late war point- judging by the evidence- were blue-grey or another shade of 'English Gray Cloth'.

Dave Burt

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

Hallo!

I wil see if I can find the paper copy, but two AC Crashes ago, over a decade or so.. IIRC, there was a posting that included a reference in the form of a letter home form an ANV soldier who writes about their having gotten blue-gray uniforms dated in May of 1863 (in time for Gettysburg). (Does not jive with time tables.)

And as just an aside, the heavy rains after Gettysburg left some corpses wet or wettish... when coupled with the tonal ranges of Period image making, can make what we see in them complicated. NOT saying that is the case here, just throwing it out in general.

Curt

[Brian Baird]

Re: Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

Curt,
The article in question is posted on the Stonewall Brigade web site:

http://www.stonewallbrigade.com/articles_english_supply.html

Brian Baird

[mike44thva]

Re: Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

Brian, the provided link appears to be dead. I went to the Brigade website and found the link there, http://stonewallbrigade.org/Additional_Articles.html, but most of those links are also dead.

[Brian Baird]

Re: Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

Mike, I just read the article on their web site. It under articles.
Brian Baird

http://www.stonewallbrigade.com/

[mike44thva]

Re: Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

Using the "Way Back Machine" on archive.org, I found this link to the Articles page and they all appear to work.

http://web.archive.org/web/20120513214602/http://www.stonewallbrigade.com/articles.html

[rmilstead]

Re: Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

Mike,
The Maryland Historical Society has a pair of Blue Gray English cloth trousers in its collections. They are currently on display with the Harrison Tait jacket. The actual provenance of the trousers is not clear as the acquisition records are indeterminate as to any history. They appear to have been possibly received with a lot of other cloth from the Maryland Confederate Soldiers Home in the early 20th Century when it closed. The trousers are almost certainly the product of the Richmond Clothing Bureau and because of some details may possibly be part of the Thomas Tolson uniform. Tolson's RDIII is described in Jensen's article in the Company Journal.
I believe that the RCB probably made trousers from Blue Gray Kersey in the last year of the war once they stopped ordering/receiving sky/royal blue kersey. I also speculate based upon the way the government shops operated and greater number of trousers produced in relation to jackets, that they probably made both at the same time earlier as well. Since I know of no specific period references to that fact, however, it is just that, speculation. Fred Adolphus does discuss both Cadet gray (Blue-Gray)kersey and blue kersey trousers made under the Confederate government Tait contract or as part of the Alabama cotract so they were coming in that way as well.
Hope that helps,
Dick Milstead
Hardaway's Alabama Battery
Baltimore Light Artillery
The Company of Military Historians.

[poilu1917]

Re: Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

The following is excerpts from a letter to Lt. Col. Elbert Bland while he was recovering at home in Edgefield. It is from Col. David Wyatt Aiken, 7th S.C. Volunteer Infantry. This letter is in the possession of Bland’s great**granddaughter, Mary Wallce Day.

From “H’qts 7th S.C. Regt, Aug 19 1862 {8 miles east of Richmond}:

{describing the Seven Days battlefield} ...The devastation, desolation, destitution and terrible loneliness of that whole country from where you were wounded {Bland in the arm} down to the river, would make it a complete wilderness but for the natural clover, and capital corn, which has not had a plough in it since the battles. But, Oh me, how lonely the country seems; no fencing, no stock, houses opened and rifled, barns torn to pieces, and the very water brooks stagnated by accumulation of filth from the camping grounds of both friend and foe. The graves of friends, and the grave pits of the enemy still show where the battles raged, while the truncated trees no less prove that they too were witnesses to the slaughtering of human lives. The very birds seem to have deserted the place...

...Our conscripts are tolerably well fixed for camp life, nicely equipped & when we get our new uniform, I think the old 7th will astonish her neighbors. We are having a uniform made in Rich at the Govt rooms, dark steel mixed jacket with light blue pants. The pants are to be lined throughout with osnaburys. Both cloths are heavy & good, English manufacture. Some of the men in the Regt are opposed to it, but I forbade the Qt Mast [quartermaster] paying out a cent of clothing money, & hence they must come in....

----------

HQ, 2nd Va Cavalry, Culpeper CH, letter from Sgt Robert Parker

May the 26, '63
... It is English cloth. I could, if I know, draw him a pair of pants, but guess he does not want any. The coat has no metal buttons on it, so if he wants such he had better bring nine with him to put on it. We have a chance to draw any clothing we wish. You need not be uneasy as to my clothes. My coat hasn't a break in it. I am doing quite well as to clothes, have as many as I can take care of...

[mike44thva]

Re: Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

Dave, Curt, Brian, Dick, & Jon: Thanks for the info.

I've read most of the Tait book, its excellent. However, I'm interested in how LATE in the war was the Blue-Gray Kersey coming into Richmond? Would a pair of BG trousers be issued in '65 since the "blue cloth" for trousers was not to be contracted after the Sept. '64 letter to J.B. Ferguson? Would there be enough stock of cloth and/or finished trousers imported from England to last through '65? Even though the blue cloth wasn't to be contracted after Sept. '64, I wouldn't think (yes I know thats dangerous) that any material already in Richmond wouldn't be used. Just debating whether to go with BG or Royal Blue trousers for '64-'65.

Thanks to all again.

[poilu1917]

Re: Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

Mike,
As already mentioned, on September 21st 1864 a letter written by A R Lawton Chief Quartermaster to J B Ferguson Chief Purchasing Agent in Britain (who had taken over purchasing Quartermaster goods from Maj Huse) stated. "You need not contract for blue cloth for pants, as the grey makes up to more advantage".

So it was actually the fall of 1864 they stopped contracting for the blue trouser wool. Dave, please correct me if I am wrong, but existing contracts weren't just cancelled and some blue trouser wool continued to be imported after September of 1864 (fulfilling existing orders). From then on however, it was just the existing fabric stocks being used and the imported ready-made blue trousers being issued by the RCB (the Crenshaw woolen mill burned in 1863).

With that, it is safe to saY that in the beginning of the summer of 1863 through Winter/Spring of 1864/65 we would see the biggest use of Royal Blue trouser wool being utilized alongside domestically produced fabric at the RCB.

Now, that being said the English army cloth of course was used for jackets and the scraps from the cutting used in caps by the RCB from possibly fall of 1862 until the end of the war but when the blue trouser wool which was no longer being contracted for ran out and with the increase of the yardage of English army cloth coming in, one can assume (touchy word I know) that the RCB then made trousers from the English army cloth as well. That and of course the Tait ready-made suits of jackets/trousers starting to arrive, English army cloth trousers would possibly have been seen as early as the end of 1864 but most likely early 1865 (my personal opinion).

[rmilstead]

Re: Blue-gray Kersey to Richmond?

Mike,
You seem to be looking for an absolute when none will likely exist. The point that Jon and I are making is that both materials were most likely being used simultaneously until supplies of the blue ran out. The RCB made up "kits" of precut jackets, trousers, shirts, etc to provide to local seamstressess for assembly utilizing material on hand and the records earlier in the war, at least indicate, that the material came from numerous sources, both domestic and imported. The number of trousers produced based upon returns to army was nearly twice the number of jackets which also is the kind of ratio specified in the regulations. Uniform items seem to have been shipped frequently (again based upon the army quartermaster returns) so they didn't appear to stock items for very long. Given these conditions they very probably made up uniform "kits" using what was on hand at any given time. The point is that they used Blue for pants so long as it was available but obviously had been using B-G before the Lawton letter since he specifically says that they were. Bottom line: Either would be appropriate for the time frame you are discussing. See also Fred Adolphus website and his Blog on ANV uniforms for another perspective.
Dick Milstead