"Wytheville Depot" Jacket

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: "Wytheville Depot" Jacket

Luke, where is this jacket housed?

[lukegilly13]

Re: "Wytheville Depot" Jacket

The one I posted pics of is on display at the Lincoln Memorial Museum at Lincolm memorial University on Harrogate, TN.
The Cumberland Gap jacket, last I heard is in a museum in Texas..

[WpnsMan]

Re: "Wytheville Depot" Jacket

Paul / Luke,

The jacket I have been focusing my efforts on is the one that matches the Porter (45th Va) and Reedy (63rd Va) images currently housed in the Atlanta History Center (AHC).

I have been exchanging emails and my research to date with the curator who has provided me with some high resolution pictures of the jacket and its details. Sorry, I agreed to not make them public without his permission as they will be included in an upcoming book on the museums Wray collection, of which the jacket in question is part of.

I have a standing invite to come and survey the jacket but, he is currently unavailable so he can complete the upcoming book on the collection by the publishers’ deadline.

He agrees that based on the evidence thus far; timeline of Wytheville’s production in conjunction with the histories and movements of units garrisoned in the area and the provenance of the AHC collection jacket coinciding, that Wytheville is the most likely origin of the jacket.

Obviously, there is still more work to be done.

[rmilstead]

Re: "Wytheville Depot" Jacket

Gents

I have been able to do a little looking into the “Wytheville Depot” operations and may have some additional information. Unfortunately I still have many unanswered questions on this operation that would “round out“ the story but hopefully the information found to date will help in understanding what was going on there during the War.

I carefully reviewed the “Message of the Governor of Virginia” letter by John Letcher with the accompanying documents the link to which was posted earlier in this thread. While parts were written early in 1863, this document represents only a summary of events for year 1862 being reported by Letcher to the legislature. Specifically, the references to operations of the Virginia Quartermaster Department and the operations of the Depot at Wytheville are in the context of supporting General John B. Floyd’s Virginia State Line troops operating at the time in Western Va. Floyd’s troops were state soldiers not mustered into regular Confederate service at this time although apparently some were later on following dissolution of the Va. State Line in the spring of 1863. Of course, at this time the Confederate States Central government was still officially operating on the “Commutation System” for provisioning clothing to the regular units under which the states were expected to provision uniforms for their soldiers in CS service and were reimbursed at standard rated by the Central Government. Apparently in mid-1862 when the Va. State Line was being organized, Floyd petitioned the CS Quartermaster General A.C. Meyers to provide these troops with uniforms and was turned down on the basis that his men were “State” troops not mustered into CS service. He them pressured the Virginia State authorities to provide the needed uniforms. In response on July 4, 1862 Letcher ordered Major L.R. Smoot, the Virginia State Quartermaster General, to begin to provide provisions and supplies, including uniforms, for Floyd’s troops. It was after this point that Smoot began to set up various operations including Wytheville to supply Floyd’s units. During the last 4 months in 1862, Smoot’s operations did apparently make or procure jackets, pants, shirts, drawers, overcoats, and caps. However, based upon Smoot’s report in the accompanying documents to Letcher’s letter, most of the uniform items including about 2/3’s of the jackets were either made or procured in Lynchburg where Smoot was posted while Captain J.B. Goodloe at Wytheville did made 1292 jackets, 2564 pairs of pants, and 239 shirts.

In October 1862 the Confederate Congress ended the” Commutation System” and mandated that all regular CS soldiers would be provided uniforms, etc. by the CS Quartermaster Department. In a report included as an accompanying document to Letcher’s Letter, Smoot indicated ”that, by decision of the Auditing Board of Virginia, this office is guided by the recent legislation of the congress of the Confederate States in regarding to supplying clothing of this kind instead of commutation as formerly.” In other words, he was to stop providing uniforms through state facilities. He goes on to indicate that other than material on hand or already contracted he will do no more. In April the VA State Line was dissolved so it is presumed that what was on hand at his Depots was distributed. Important questions remain as to whether any clothing manufacturing occurred at Wytheville after, say, April of 1863? I could find no evidence of issue of such clothing from that location to regular Confederate units stationed in the area later in the war after the dissolution of the Virginia State Line? I also was unable to find records of any of the individuals involved in the State operations at Wytheville (i.e. Smoot, Goodloe, or C.W.Venable) in the Consolidated Service Records of the Confederate States so presumably they were not made part of the CSQM staff.

As stated, my investigation indicated that certain parts of the Virginia State Line were mustered into CS service following its dissolution in April 1863, notably elements of what became the 45th Va. Infantry. Interestingly, records exist of a rather large clothing Issue to 1st Lieutenant Porter’s Company of the 45th Va. on the 30th of June in 1863. The issued items included 43 Jackets. Porter’s picture shows him wearing a jacket purported to be from Wytheville. I am not sure what the date of the picture of him is from but these could be the issue where he received the jacket shown. Officers were by this time allowed to buy and wear common soldier’s uniforms for their own use. Anyway, the AQM who issued that clothing was Captain A. Pettyjohn who was the CS AQM assigned to the 45th from March 1862 (probably when it was mustered into the Confederate service) until May 2, 1864 when he was relieved. Pettyjohn reported to the CS Quartermaster located at Dublin, VA. During this period this would have been Major Thomas J. Noble. The uniforms received by the 45th Va. were issued out of the Dublin Depot. Records are pretty clear that Dublin did not manufacture clothing but records do exist in the same period of receipt of quantities of uniforms at the Depot for distribution to troops in the area. The bottom line is that the 1863 Uniforms for the 45th Va. and, presumably, the other CS troops in that area were coming out of Dublin not Wytheville. While Wytheville was operating as a CS Depot location after Dublin was burned in the May 1864 Federal raid, it is not even mentioned in the mid 1863 CS QM records possibly indicating that it probably was closed down at that point after the state ended its operations there.

Investigation as to where the uniform items being dispensed by Dublin were manufactured has been fruitless to date. In a letter at the end of 1862, Major W.B. Ferguson of the Richmond Depot lists both Staunton and Lynchburg as locations where clothing manufacturing was occurring. It may be, however, if the Lynchburg reference was relative to the Va. State operation under Smoot since I was unable to find any other records indicating that clothing was made in Lynchburg. Significantly, however, in later CS records I have seen very sketchy references to Staunton with respect to Clothing manufacturing. I believe that any clothing stocked and issued out of Dublin would have come from Staunton if not from Richmond in the middle of 1863. The only other local manufactory mentioned in the Dublin QM records is a shoe making operation in Salem which apparently was burned as part of the Federal operations in the area in December 1863.

With respect to the Jacket in the AHC that was reported to have been taken from Dublin by Federal troops following the raid where the Depot was destroyed. I can believe that it may have been supplied by the same clothing manufactory which supplied the jackets to Dublin in 1863 that were issued to the 45th Va. (Staunton?). If so it would possibly represent the specific output of a CS Quartermaster clothing manufacturing operations other than Richmond. I personally believe that this was most likely Staunton. However, based upon the information that I was able to find in the Official records, I do not believe, it was Wytheville unless “solid” period primary references surface that indicate that in later 1863 and 1864 that location was not only a CS Quartermaster facility but also was still making uniforms. Not to say that it wasn't doing so only that a fairly extensive search of records in the National Archives produced no evidence of such an operation there after the beginning of 1863.

One of the major problems in answering questions like this is of course the holes that exist in the records which have survived. As part of some continuing research that I am conducting on CS Quartermaster clothing manufacturing in the eastern theater of War it may be possible that more details relative to Wytheville may emerge but at this point I cannot say any more.
Dick Milstead
The Company of Military Historians

[WpnsMan]

Re: "Wytheville Depot" Jacket

My research to date mirrors most of what you have uncovered though I have not seen the June 1863 documents of uniform issues to the 45th Va. I agree that the extant documents pertaining to the Wytheville Quartermaster’s Depot manufacturing clothing are initially related to supporting the Virginia State Line troops under Floyd. These documents support that Lynchburg and Wytheville exchanged both raw materials between the two facilities and that the bulk of Lynchburg’s clothing production went to Wytheville during the periods stated. Unfortunately, there are sparse documents related to Wytheville’s production after this time frame as well as positively identifying issues to and the related records of the regular Confederate units raised or operating in the region.

From the production figures in the previously mentioned documents it appears that Wytheville did not start production until Sept of 1862 through Jan of 1863. Documents pertaining to production after this report have not surfaced. The bulk of production by the extant records was after the commutation system was ended. I believe the sole reason for starting production to provide clothing in kind was to mirror the policy of the regular Confederate Quartermaster and the records state as much.

It is important to note that the Quartermaster Depot in Wytheville existed prior to the State Line Troops and it continued to operate well after that organizations demise, in some function or another. While the clothing manufactory was initially set up to support Floyd’s troops, I believe that it continued to produce clothing to support the regular Confederate troops in the area based on the existing though sparse evidence and by the unit histories and service of those so far identified as pictured wearing this jacket coinciding. It also remained an important military objective to the Federals along with the Salt and Lead works in the region. The earliest document I have found to date relating to QM operations in Wytheville in the OR’s was from Wytheville’s Asst. QM, Wm. Gibboney. In Nov of 1861 he was corresponding with the Sec of War that he had forwarded ammunition from Richmond, a substantial quantity of lead and was providing transportation for two Regiments.

In July of 1863 MG Samuel Jones, then commanding the Dept. of Western Virginia in Dublin sends Gibboney, who is still the Asst. QM of Wytheville, word of an approaching Federal raid and that he should arm and organize the citizens to protect the town. This indicates that the facility was still vital to operations. In Sept of 1863 Jones, who was now in Jonesborough Tenn. sent Gibboney correspondence to Wytheville to relay to BG Corse, whose command was en route from Lynchburg to Tenn. It is presumed he was stopping at Wytheville for supplies and subsistence.

In MG Stoneman’s report of his December 1864 raid into SW Virginia he states that he captured and destroyed the QM Depot in Wytheville with all is stores. It goes on to list a substantial amount of ordnance and ammunition, subsistence, medical and quartermaster supplies. Though clothing is not specifically mentioned this indicates that Wytheville was still a major supply hub for the region.

In Feb of 1865, in correspondence with Gen. Echols, Col. Giltner then in Lee County with his Cavalry force makes mention of the clothing deficiency of his troops and that he sent his quartermaster to Wytheville to receipt for the clothing and other stores allotted to his command. At this late date it would appear that Wytheville was still operating and issuing clothing. Whether they were still manufacturing it is unclear.

From the sparse surviving documents it appears that the Quartermaster’s Depot in Wytheville operated from 1861 until 1865 and was by all accounts remained a vital logistical activity in the region. This would suggest that the facility supplied both the regular Confederate forces in the area along with the State Line, through their Asst. QM’s concurrently. After the capacity to produce clothing was instituted by the State Line QM it seems unlikely the Confederate QM Office would not take advantage of the preexisting capability with the disbandment of the former organization. Unfortunately records to date have not uncovered whether they were producing the clothing they were issuing until the end of hostilities.

As I stated earlier, I doubt whether Wytheville ever had the capability to produce clothing to meet the needs of all the units in the area. Extant photographs of Soldiers in the same units where these jackets show up are also seen to be wearing what appear to be Richmond Depot type II’s. It is reasonable to assume that these were transferred from Richmond (or other point) and issued when they could not meet demand. In regards to clothing in kind, Smoot states that the total cost per man paid for by the State was higher than that of the Confederate government due to the latter’s larger contracts. He goes on to state that the Confederate QM furnished his wants at cost and subsidized the required transportation cost.

In the enclosures of Smoot’s Feb 1863 report, Goodloe reports that from Sept ’62 to Jan ’63 Wytheville accounted for 2400 jackets being either issued (1,083) or transferred (1,317). I have not found any evidence of Wytheville transferring finished clothing to Lynchburg while Lynchburg made transfers of approximately 75% of its production to be issued by Wytheville. Assuming all the issues made were destined for State Troops, where then would the larger quantity of transfers have been made to? The possible recipients would most likely have been the regular Confederate forces in the area, though no documents have yet been uncovered to verify this.

A brief aside concerning the State Line Troops;
As stated, the organization came into existence in June 1862 and was disbanded by April of 1863. Their organization and actual numbers were always in question as the majority of the extant correspondence seems to question the validity of Floyd’s numbers or, the lack of accurate or any returns from those organizations by which the Quartermaster’s Office could use to adequately support them. In short it appears that Floyd commanded a force that was substantially larger on paper than what actually existed at any given time.

The 45th Virginia and other regiments raised in the area such as the 22nd, 36th, 50th, 51st and 63rd existed before the formation of the State Line. Many with the exception of the 63rd had been under Floyd’s or Wise’s command in the early campaigns in the region. To state that they were formed from the remnants of the State Line is not accurate. However, many of these Soldiers had previously served in some of the formerly stated regiments until their initial terms of enlistment expired and subsequently joined the State Line. Perhaps they sought to be garrisoned closer to home or, to avoid conscription into regular Confederate forces. It seems that service in the State Line was an apparent exemption. When the State Line was dissolved, these men were then subject to the conscription act currently in force and many returned to their old regiments.

A brief summary of the 45th and 63rd Virginia as it relates to this discussion:

The 45th was mustered into Confederate service on May 29, 1861 at Wytheville, Va.
From May 29th 1861 to January of 1862 the 45th operated in the region of SW Virginia.
In January of 1862 the 45th was transferred to Tennessee.
In April of 1862 the regiment returned to SW Virginia spending the winter of ’63 garrisoned at Saltville and operated in the region until Sept 19th of 1863 when they were again ordered into Tennessee.
The regiment returned to Saltville in mid-October of 1863 and operated in the region until May of 1864 when they left the area for operations with Early’s Army of the Valley.

Calvin N. Porter, 1Lt. 45th Va. Inf, Co. D; enlisted on May 29, 1861 at Wytheville. Promoted to Lt. July of 1862. Killed in action at Cloyd’s Mtn. May 9, 1864.

Porter’s company being issued in a quantity of jackets in June of ’63 coincides with their first garrison duty in Saltville (Apr ’62-Sept ’63). However he could have been issued the jacket during after they returned to Saltville in Oct ’63 to prior to Cloyd’s Mtn. Unfortunately the date on the back of his photo is illegible to draw a distinct time frame from.

The 63rd Regiment of Virginia Infantry was organized in March and April of 1862 at Abingdon, Va.
From May until December of 1862 the regiment was involved in operations in southwest Virginia, West Virginia, and Kentucky.
In December of 1862, the regiment along with several other units were transferred to the Tidewater region of Virginia.
In March, 1863 the regiment returned to southwest Virginia. During the summer of 1863 the regiment was charged with the security of the salt works at Saltville, Virginia.
In August of 1863, the 63rd was transferred to the Army of Tennessee where they would remain for the duration of the war.

Riley Reedy, Pvt. 63rd Va. Inf, Co. C; enlisted on Apr 6, 1862 at Moccasin Gap. Returned from desertion Dec 21, 1863. Deserted near Marietta Ga. Jul 1, 1864.

Reedy could have been issued his jacket in the Sept to Dec ’62 timeframe as the 63rd was operating in the area though they were actively campaigning during most of this time. A better possibility may be the Mar to Aug ’63 timeframe when they were also garrisoned at the Salt Works before they left the area. There is an extant muster roll for the 63rd taken at Saltville in July of ’63 for the May to Jun period. There is also an extant descriptive roll for company I that list issues of jackets but I have yet to find a date or place of issue noted in it thus far.

My belief is that Porter and Reedy both had their photographs taken during the periods when their regiments were operating in the area and after we know production in Wytheville had commenced. Most likely during the times their regiments were garrisoned at Saltville. Being garrisoned in close proximity to a larger town for an extended period of time and being issued an actual uniform as opposed to being paid commutation for providing your own clothing would make getting ones picture more appealing and possible.

The jacket in Atlanta displaying these same details being picked up at Cloyd’s Mtn as late as May ’64 would lead me to believe they were still being produced. Given the generally accepted lifespan of a jacket in service, I doubt it was still left over from production for the State Line. Given the condition of the jacket and the applied trim, I believe it was an issued garment as opposed to one that was in storage as some have surmised.

This continues to be a great discussion, with new tidbits being uncovered by all concerned. Chances are we may never find documentation to either prove or disprove our own personal theories on the subject.

[rmilstead]

Re: "Wytheville Depot" Jacket

Bryan,
I agree as I said that the lack of records (that have been uncovered to date) is a frustrating fact of life but after doing a lot of studying of the way Meyers and later Lawton ran the Confederate Central Government Quartermaster operation, I personally have real doubts that after the State of Virginia ceased manufacturing clothing there they would have necessarily kept it going. Maybe as a Depot but not a "clothing manufactory". First, given the relative numbers of jackets made there under Goodloe, there is no obvious reason to believe that they even worked on the same production model as Richmond. They could have "farmed out" that level of production completely to local taylors and seamstresses and merely provided the raw materials, the records clearly don't say. Remember in the same timeframe, the entire 4 month production of jackets by Goodloe represented perhaps two or three days output from the RCB. The Richmond staff was doing everything they could to acquire wool, warps, and finished woolen material for their operation so I'm also doubtful they were sending much off anywhere. So to assume that there was any production capability there to utilize is speculation.

Second, there is absolutely no mention of Wytheville as part of the "clothing manufactories" working for the Central government in any of the papers that I have seen. As I said in a letter from the November 1862 timeframe W. Ferguson one of the principal officers at the Richmond Clothing Bureau is very specific and lists the Government clothing manufactories in Virginia as Richmond, Lynchburg, and Staunton. Furthermore, I can find no information that indicates that Lynchburg ever made clothing except what ever the State of Virginia people under Smoot were doing. The records of the Staunton Depot's operations are really "foggy" as well. In one report all of the clothing appears on hand or received in one quarter seems to have come from "unknown sources" and none was manufactured there. In another the QM officer in charge refers to his "Army Clothing Manufactory". The same letter from Ferguson mentions Knoxville as another "clothing manufactory". I know little about that operation but perhaps it also was making clothing for regular troops in the area before its capture in September of 1863.

All of the reading that I have done seems to say that Meyers and particularly Lawson were "control freeks" in modern terms. By the last year of the War Lawton was pushing for even more control of the QM supply chain and trying to further consolidate the CS operations as much as he could and the Yankees would allow him. Also if you look at Richmond's output in that period many authors have commented on the fact that they were producing far more uniforms than Lee had troops in the field. Those extra garments were not all lost in transit they were going somewhere.

The key question which you need to prove through solid period documentation is that Wytheville was actually making clothing, specifically jackets, after April of 1863. Yes, it was a Depot receiving QM supplies in and issuing them. Yes after the burning of the Dublin Depot in May 1864 the Regional AQM, Edw. McMahon moved his operation there. But you need through period records to show that they were making clothing there. Thus far, with all due respect to the excellent research you have provided, I submit you haven't prooved rhe case. And as you say with the lack of existing records you may not be able to do so.
Dick Milstead

[WpnsMan]

Re: "Wytheville Depot" Jacket

Dick,

It is unfortunate that there are no extant documents or, no mention of operations in Wytheville within the records of the Confederate Quartermasters Office.

I think the records from Wytheville confirm that they were producing clothing through either the piecework system or, under contract as there is a distinct entry for a substantial amount of funds expended for the “manufacture of clothing”. As large quantities of materials, buttons and thread are noted as being purchased in the abstracts of their expenditures, it is highly probable the funds expended for “manufacture” were to pay for labor in assembling completed garments as opposed to buying them from an outside vendor.

In regards to the November 1862 document listing the clothing manufactories within the State. As Wytheville was a subordinate of Lynchburg perhaps Ferguson was making reference to the latter to include its subsidiaries which indirectly included Wytheville, hard to say with any degree of certainty. With the enterprise initially undertaken with the sole intent of supplying the State Line, the details of their manufacturing capabilities may have been inconsequential to the central government as they were outside of their purview of responsibility. Or, as production did not commence until September, perhaps Ferguson may simply not have been aware of the manufacturing operation at Wytheville at the time of his letter.

We know production records exist for that time period and specifically show output from both activities. By Nov of 1862 they were only in their second month of production and Goodloe’s report of issues and transfers only accounts for roughly 1400 jackets and 2700 pairs of pants, in addition to what may have been in stores, by the time of Ferguson’s letter. This puts the accuracy of Ferguson’s statement into question in this instance. Or, is further evidence that he was unaware of Wytheville's operations at that time.

While I have not delved into the operations at Staunton your research to date confirms that their records are just as scarce as are Wytheville’s in regards to clothing production, perhaps more so. I agree that a portion of Richmond’s production was undoubtedly coming into the region during this time as evidenced in contemporary photographs of regular Confederate Soldiers in the region. Smoot indirectly makes comment to that effect in stating the central government on occasion also provided for his wants (of which items is uncertain), from their stores. This may suggest that he reciprocated when the needs of the regular Confederate forces in the region were urgent and thus account for the transfers seen in the records.

The possibility that Porter and Reedy are wearing jackets produced at Wytheville is highly plausible as their units’ movements and their service coincide with known production and transfers from Wytheville from Sept of 1862 through possibly as late as April of 1863. The pieces of evidence thus far uncovered fall into the normally accepted time, place and unit mantra so often expounded on this very forum.

The nagging question in my mind remains, “if” production in Wytheville ceased with the State Line QM operations no later than April of 1863 as far as extant records can plausibly support, who then manufactured the jacket having these same regionally distinctive characteristics recovered at Cloyd’s Mountain in May of ’64? Between records that may have been destroyed in Stoneman’s raid on the facility or, conceivably lost after Richmond was evacuated, this question may well remain unanswered.

On a positive note, the collective document based research provided by all those participating in this discussion to date, has uncovered some important facts that I feel were clearly lacking in previous speculation regarding this issue.

[lukegilly13]

Re: "Wytheville Depot" Jacket

Here is a close up of the buttons on the LMU confederate jacket. Just curious if anyone had seen these before or if it helps at all with the origin of the jacket.


- - - Updated - - -

Here is another. I couldn't get it to let me post more than one at a time from my phone.

[lukegilly13]

Re: "Wytheville Depot" Jacket

In the second picture I posted above, take a look at the way facing is attached. Looks almost like a whip stitch or blanket stitch. Is this odd or typical? I don't recall noticing it on any other jacket I've viewed which is not all that many.

[WpnsMan]

Re: "Wytheville Depot" Jacket

Luke,

The buttons look like civilian "Floral" types but the crest in the center almost suggest something of a "Maryland" persuasion.

Probably coincidence,

[Raleighdepot]

One theory that two parts mine, including myself, have put serious thought into was the possibility of the garment having NC origins. We have read articles and documents stating that the “depot” was requesting materials, supplies, etc from Richmond but due to raids in the area Richmond refused their request and instructed them to obtain the items else where. Which one of the closes place to receive materials for uniforms and etc would be North Carolina. There were multiple textile mills in the counties that line the border of the state just south of wythville. Two of these mills being less than 40 miles away. Again just a theory. The other evidence we found was a summary of a diary housed in the NC archives of a woman who lived in Fayetteville and when her husband enlisted she began making uniforms, shirts, blankets etc to be supplied to their regiment. When the regiment was order to Va, she and her family moved to their summer home in va where she continued to make these garments and was still
obtaining the material to make them from NC. But the biggest clue in this story is that her summer home was located in wythville Va. again just a theory, but the fact the jacket itself is cut very similar to the NC general issue garment (4 piece body, belt loops, 6/7 button front etc.) its definitely a trail worth looking further into.