Question re: ramrod for unaltered Mississippi Rifle

[GenuineInformation]

Gents,

I have been researching which type of ramrod originally came on M1841 rifles and cannot come to a clear answer. Per Mr. Schmidt's M1841 Monograph, the ramrod is brass tipped, trumpet shape, and concave. However, I have also seen original examples that have a brass-tipped, trumpet shape, flat-tip ramrod. Were there flat-tipped ramrods (brass tip, trumpet shape) originally supplied with Mississippi Rifles? If it is of any consequence, I am particularly interested in what type the Harpers Ferry-produced .54 rifles, unaltered, originally had.

Thanks.

[tsgalloway]

Re: Question re: ramrod for unaltered Mississippi Rifle

My Harper's Ferry .54 caliber has a brass-tipped ramrod. I believe the M1841s that were converted to .58 caliber were fitted with the other style ramrods.

[GenuineInformation]

Re: Question re: ramrod for unaltered Mississippi Rifle

Is the brass tip flat or concave?

Perhaps a picture of what I'm trying to communicate would help. The concave is on the left, the flat on the right. These are reproduction ramrods, but it's the only comparison shot I have:

[tsgalloway]

Re: Question re: ramrod for unaltered Mississippi Rifle

It's almost like a hybrid between your two. I believe is started life as flat, but gained a slight concavity with use (not manufactured this way). It is less "bell-shaped" than your flat one.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Question re: ramrod for unaltered Mississippi Rifle

Hallo!

Dunno.

It would make for an interesting "empirical" original survey.

IMHO, and experience...

The arsenal "standard" for the original M1841 Rifle was a flared (aka "trumpet") brass headed ramrod. The tip was concave to allow it to sit on the round ball. Aside from that being referenced in several bibles, it is what the surviving inspection die set at Harper's Ferry support.

The next arsenal standard was a slightly modified version used on the arsenal .58 alterations where the concave portion of the tip is milled to better match the pointed end of a Minie ball.

Next are contractor made M1841's where the ramrods are slightly different but different enough to being down the wrath of government inspectors.
Then there are new ramrods made entirely of iron/steel with a tulip type end for Minie balls in the .58 alterations. (I believe these to be contractor made and not arsenal.)

And last are ramrods that do not fit the above. Ramrods can often be the most problematic area of guns because of their loss rate, and replacements being found that work or can be made to work by generations of surplus dealers, owners, gun dealers, antique dealers, and collectors. M1841's are sometimes found with M1803 Rifle and M1817 Common Rifle ramrods. And sometimes with cut down "M1795," et al, button end types cut down. Etc., etc.

Curt

[GenuineInformation]

Re: Question re: ramrod for unaltered Mississippi Rifle

Thanks so much, Curt. I was hoping you would respond. In my research, I even found a very crude but brass-tipped ramrod, nominally for a Mississippi Rifle, where the brass had been drilled from the "point" of the cone up to the flared end, placed upon the iron or steel ramrod, and the exposed tip of iron/steel peened to secure the brass tip. That was an interesting one.

[GenuineInformation]

Re: Question re: ramrod for unaltered Mississippi Rifle

And Tristan--thanks for your response, too! I missed your comment at first--so sorry for not acknowledging it. You have been most helpful.

Best,
JSK

[tsgalloway]

Re: Question re: ramrod for unaltered Mississippi Rifle

You are most welcome. Curt's reply was excellent.