Sibley tent stove

[JustRob]

Re: Sibley tent stove

I would be interested in specs on the tripod and whether anyone is making them.

[Prodical Reb]

Re: Sibley tent stove

If you are close to Fredericksburg, White Oak Museum on 218, has at least one intact. I don't have a picture of it but the next time I'm out there I'll be sure to take a pic of it. Here is the web page

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/whiteoakmuseum/exhibits.html

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Sibley tent stove

Hi All,

Ft Bowie NPS , as mentioned before has a Sibley Stove and also they have a Tripod in nice shape. It is not on display . It was found a few years ago standing inteh middle of the desert.

As far as the stove pipe goes. I had this issue, as I purchased a repop Sibley Stove through George McGillis ( It is Well Woth the money & well done).

I found the correct diameter stove pipe at the Victorian Fire Place Shop, here is their web site:

http://www.gascoals.net/ChimneyCapsPipe/BlackStovePipe/tabid/413/Default.aspx

The stove pipe , just as per the original has to be assembled, via a locking seam to complete the sections (once assembled they are permanent).

Also as far as the isse uf controling the stove. I found using a brick as a sort of air intake check in front of the "mouse hole" at the base of the stove works pretty well & keeps the stove from drawing too much air. By sliding the brick in front of the hole to either block the air totally, or to let a little through keeps the stove from getting too hot. This ofcoarse works best when the door is shut on the stove.


Hope this helps

Don S

[packer01]

Re: Sibley tent stove

I went to Fort Bowie last week and they have a sibley stove on display in their museum, on the sign that accompanied it it said that Henry Sibley stood to make quite a lot of money(an estimated $250,000.00) for his designs of both the Sibley tent and stove. However as a result of his decision to side with the Confederacy (where he was served as a Brigadier General) he never recieved a dime for either. I am wondering if he ever got the stove patented.Just a thought....
That sure seems like a lot of money..... I wonder if what the sign said is true? I havent seen any other documantation that confirms it.
Respectfully,
John Rogers

The issue of the value of the Sibley patent dragged on until long after the Civil War, finally heading to the U.S. Supreme Court in December 1870. The full decision was in US vs Burns, 79 US 246 (1870) [FindLaw or other legal search engines should pull this up if anyone wants the complete text].

Basically, Major W W Burns acquired a 50% interest in 1858 to all the profits that Sibley would derive from his invention. Sibley had a contract to receive $5 from the US govt for every Sibley tent produced. In August 1861 the US govt stopped paying Sibley his royalty, and agreed to pay Burns $2.50 a tent directly. They then changed their mind in December 1861, deciding that Burns was not entitled to 'subcontract' from another Army officer, and stopping all further payments. Legal wrangling ensued....

The Court of Claims determined that Burns was entitled to $2.50 for the 40,497 Sibley tents made by the US government that they had not paid royalties on. A total of $101,242.50. The US government appealed on pretty technical arguments, but the Supreme Court finally affirmed the Court of Claims decision.

The decision only concerned the tents, as that was the only item patented. Sibley, presumably, would have been entitled to $2.50 for his share of the royalty payment, so it looks like he lost out on $101,242.50 through his decision to join the Confederacy.

The other point of note would be that Sibley appears to have received $2.50 a tent for every tent made from February 1858 to August 1861, so it would be incorrect to say that he never received a dime from the US government -- just not as much as he could have!

We also do not know the nature of Burns' 'acquisition' of 50% of the patent rights. Presumably he exchanged some value for it and Sibley did not simply give away such potential income for nothing; money up front, property, future considerations. So Sibley also profited from his patent to the value of whatever he received from Burns.

If the $202,500 of royalties on tents made in 1861-1862 is added to the number possibly made in 1858-1861, a total contract value of $250,000 may not be far off the mark. But Sibley would only have been keeping at most half of that amount anyway.


FWIW

Frank Packer

[John E. Tobey]

Re: Sibley tent stove

I have an original stove and tripod. Reproducing a 100% authentic tripod would be problematical since the top section is made of cast iron and the legs have a funny cross-section. With that being said, I have a set of plans that take into account modern manufacturing methods (fabricated instead of cast iron top, angle iron iron instead of "U" iron legs, etc.).

I don't think I can post the plans on this site due to the size of the file. Anyone interested can send me a PM via this site (after the first week of June -- I'm busy until then) and I'll hook you up.

John Tobey

[Prodical Reb]

Re: Sibley tent stove

I was out at White Oak Museum today and took these pics:








the 3rd one shows a differnt tripod w/a flattened point to support a pole but I don't think it would work for a sibley tent do to the weight of the tent would end up splitting the pole. the 7th pic shows the tent support ring, chain and hooks sitting on the tripod itself.

[AZReenactor]

Re: Sibley tent stove

Michael, Very nice. Thank you for sharing these.

By chance, did you get a chance to see how the shelf was attached to the stove?

[gilham]

Re: Sibley tent stove

Troy
I got the chance to look at one several years ago in a private collection. The shelf is attatched by rivets underneath the shelf. Meaning that a bend was made where the shelf attatches and that bend was rivited to the body of the stove.

[Prodical Reb]

Re: Sibley tent stove

I didn't think to take some pics of the the underside but the next time I'm out there or sooner I'll go and get some pics of the shelf and how it is attached. White Oak has some shelves that were recovered without the stove itself. As I recall it is just a flat piece of tin cut in a "U" shape. I'll get those also.

As far as attaching goes I would guess they were attached using a separate piece of angle iron or bent tin bracket and rivets. the angle may be gusseted but I doubt it. Something quick, available and shoddy when the stove was made (scrap tin).

I forgot to add the pic of the tripod foot.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Sibley tent stove

Also as far as the isse uf controling the stove. I found using a brick as a sort of air intake check in front of the "mouse hole" at the base of the stove works pretty well & keeps the stove from drawing too much air. By sliding the brick in front of the hole to either block the air totally, or to let a little through keeps the stove from getting too hot.

Don,

That is the method we used with the repop Sibley stoves at Winter 1864 2008, and the "brick over the mouse hole" worked just fine. The stoves also appear to be designed to work on small wood, such as kindling, deadfall, or squaw wood, and need quite a bit of tending in cool weather.

And...for those who haven't visited D.P. Newton's White Oak Museum, yes, it really is a must see.

White Oak Museum

[Arkansas Box Boy]

Re: Sibley tent stove

After re-reading the patent, It appears that there was some leeway in the design of the tripods. The cast 'Socket' could be substituted as follows:

"The tripod to be furnished with a socket three inches deep into which the lower end of the pole fits snugly and is fastened by means of a rivet (Fig, 6), or for the socket, substitute a swivel ring or plate of iron, with a hole through which the end of the pole shod with iron may rest upon a shoulder (Figs. 5 and 6)."

I've attached scanned copies of the patent for your reading enjoyment.

[Minieball577]

Re: Sibley tent stove

OK. So I have been around the AC long enough to know not to ask this, but I am going to anyway...

Who makes the best Sibley Tent? :cry_smile

Are any of the current makers avilable on the internet worth the money if interest in accuracy is important?

[Blair]

Re: Sibley tent stove

Chris,

This gentleman offers what looks to be a very nice Sibley Stove, including the "warming shelf" (which variant of warming shelf I cant say, there is at least one other I have seen that is not in the very nice photos listed earlier).

tinsmith3@gmail.com

Money Order to
George MacGillis
5106 NE 86th Ave.
Portland, OR 97220

I hope this information is helpful to you,

[Minieball577]

Re: Sibley tent stove

Blair, thanks for the contact for MacGillis. I have bought many canteens through him, and will get a stove from him if I can just get the tent that goes with it.

I have been looking for a good tent for some time.

Panther primitives offers what appears to be a quality product, but includes brass grommets, which to me are suspect. I am looking for a tent that matches originals. I have not examined a n original Sibley, unfortunately, so must rely on those who have to direct me in the right direction for a tent of period construction. Thanks.