Target Practice: Cav vs. Infantry

[Steven Dacus]

I am in need of some assistance from this community:

I am trying to conduct research on the correct way to conduct target practice from both the infantry and cavalry perspectives and have searched this forum but have not found exactly what I am looking for. I am getting conflicting information when reading "A System of Target Practice For The Use of Troops: When armed with the Musket, Rifle, or Carbine" from 1862 vs. the "Target Practice" section on page 69 of Cooke's "Cavalry Tactics or, Regulations for the Instruction, Formation, and Movements of The Cavalry".

The manual just for target practice states distances from 100, 150, 250, 325, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900, & 1,000 yards. From what I can read, very little is said regarding distances smaller than 100 yards. While Cooke's states "The squad fires at 20 yards, each man fires to the front, rear, right and left. The firing is next at thirty yards, and is carried regularly by the decimal increase up to 100 yards."

Does anybody know what was an actual "standard" or common distance for target practice of companies? Obviously infantry long arms will be longer distances than cavalry carbines, but I have been unable to find any evidence to give me some help on what would be a good distance.

This is in reference to planning one of our live fire events next year where we will manufacture targets per the manuals. We will have a competition for the infantry and one for the cavalry. Maybe an additional question would be at what distance would any of you feel comfortable but yet challenged to hit?

I am curious if anyone else has compared the two manuals with regard to each of their "Target Practice" standards. I look forward to your assistance and opinions.

[Don Dixon]

Re: Target Practice: Cav vs. Infantry

Steve,

I've been a competive shooter for most of my life, and have been researching a book on the Federal and Confederate use of Austro-Hungarian arms (i.e., the "Lorenz") during the Civil War. As part of the Austrian project, I've been interested in which units carried Austrian weapons, how they trained with them, and what they thought of them. Thus, some observations.

If a unit got ANY marksmanship instruction it was notable. The men were taught to load and fire as quickly as possible, but generally not at targets; particularly not the targets specified in the manuals. For example, I can document that a large number of Federal units began the Atlanta Campaign equipped with Austrian arms, and ended the campaign equipped with Springfields or Enfields, having been re-armed literally on the march. That they could have conducted any sort of formal marksmanship instruction with those arms is absurd.

In those very few units whose commanders provided marksmanship training, the Muster 1854 System Lorenz rifle musket was generally well liked.

Why no instruction for infantry at ranges less than 100 yards? The military is concerned about danger space -- that is the space at which at shot fired at the center of the target will hit somewhere between the bottom of the enemy's feet and the top of his head -- not bullseye target accuracy. The danger space of the M-16 rifle, for example, is 350 meters. The danger space of the Civil War rifle musket is a distance of about 125 yeards. Due to the trajectory of the bullet, firing accurately at distances beyond that takes training and practice. That's why the manual talked about training at the longer distances.

Original pistols were sighted for a distance of 75 yeards. At 25 yards you held at the target's knees; at 50 yards you held center of mass; and at 75 yards you held at his head. Again we are not talking about bullseye targets. The cavalryman would have been concerned about practical verification of the hold-offs he had to use with his particular weapon, given manufactuing variances.

The North-South Skirmish Association (N-SSA) shoots at bullseye targets (individual matches) and breakable targets (team events) at 50 and 100 yards. The 50 yard individual targt is the NRA's 100 yard smallbore rifle target, and the 100 yard target is the NRA's 200 yard high power rifle target. The 50 yard team targets are clay pigeons, clay pots, 4X4 inch tiles, and various small trash targets. The 100 yard team target is generally 8X8 tiles. You can go to the rule book on their web site for details.

The individual pistol targets are the NRA 25 and 50 yard targets, and the team events are the same breakables as for the long arms.

Whether shooting long arms or pistol in N-SSA competition, the original style front sights have to be raised to provide accuracy on these targets. The same is true in international bullseye target competitions sponsored by the Muzzle Loaders Associations Intenational Committee (MLAIC).

For your purposes -- using unmodified arms -- a man sized silhoute target set at distances to 125 yards for long guns, and to 75 yards for pistols would be a reasonable approximation of the training -- such as it was -- that soldiers got during the war. A major reason why infantry fights were fought at 75 to 125 yards was that the soldiers weren't trained for anything else. Beware the political ramifications of using silhoute targets.

"Oh, but the Confederates did it better." Not really. Shooting a small game rifle at distances generaly less than 40 rods is good basic marksmanship training, but shooting a military rifle at militarily useful distances is very much different.

Regards,
Don Dixon

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Target Practice: Cav vs. Infantry

Hallo!

Some random infantry observations perhaps on my part...

The dominant, but slowly changing away from it as the War progressed , thinking of the time was still a hold over from the 18th century where the soldier's skill was a combination of being able to load and the ability to level a musket so that a "horizontal sheet of lead" was fired into the shoulder-to-line opposing (twin) line of the enemy ideally before they could do it to you first. And attacks were often made with say 250-300 yards between 'waves' so that one's second line was relatively safe from musketry but close to act in support or having room to maneuver.

While the Enfield continued to have sights graduated to 900 or 1000 yards, the U.S. had dropped its graduated "long range" M1855 RM rear sight in its later production in favor of a two leaf system for only 100, 300, and 500 yards, which as a "short range" rear sight carried over into the M1861/63/64 RM's. . Couple with the "mortar" round flight path or trajectory of the Minie, it was hard to aim at, and hit, a target at distance.
For example, a kneeling skirmisher,, aiming at the shiny belt plate of a man coming at him at 300 yards, will have the bullet still passing above head height until 250 yards (and will hit the ground or into the feet of a man behind the target at 350 yards.

There is also the difference between "effective range" and "battlefield" range. Meaning, a bullet might be dangerous in that it will inflict wound or death out to "X" distance. But while a longarm might have sights graduated/marked out to say a 1,000 yards, battle field usage as to when an officer would order firing to commence was far less. often 100-300 yards as "combat effective."

And last is the more "old fashioned" thinking among some officers, and particularly the Ordnance Department that target practice, like repeating arms, was a waste of rounds and therefore money. Even during the post War "Indian Wars" officers were accountable for rounds and target practice wasted them unless they wanted to pay for them out of their own pockets.

:) :)

Curt

[Steven Dacus]

Re: Target Practice: Cav vs. Infantry

The reason for the question was to accurately represent a live shoot that we will be hosting the last day of our 150 mile ride for the cav guys next year in Wyoming.

I also have participated in N-SSA events but don't want to use them as a model as they are not consistent with either manual listed in this thread. Although I know organized marksmanship was relatively rare for the armies and would fall outside NUG, but I want to make sure we are doing it per the manuals but also at ranges that will be challenging and not insulting.

In Cooke's, it says to start at 20 yards then move up by 10 yards each time up to 100 yards. Therefore I am thinking about having one set of shots at 50(standing) yards and the other set of shots at 100 yards (kneeling). Thoughts? would this be something that would work for this community (those who like to live fire)?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Target Practice: Cav vs. Infantry

Hallo!

Just an obvious question first...

Are the participants reenactors with no "live round' experience or are they experienced live-fire shooters?
Organizing and running a safe and successful shooting experience requires some pretty talented and experience 'range officer' types or even disciplined N-SSA folks. Covering such issues as
how "firearm" handling or competent are the would-be shooters, where the spectators are, where to load, maybe not capping until at the fire line, muzzle discipline, clearing weapons to verify they are empty before leaving the line, the ability to pull rounds and safely discharge a gun to empty it, etc., etc.,
Some times, often times, reenactors are inexperienced as to firearm safety and group shooting discipline, not to mention basic firearm safety protocols largely due to lack of education, lack of experience, and the lack of (for many) never having fired live and for using firearms only with blanks which for some lads leads to a careless and casual "unsafe" way or habit of treating them other than as reenacting "props." Plus revolvers are more "demanding" than carbines.

Safety concerns set aside, may be even insurance issues as well, "In Cooke's, it says to start at 20 yards then move up by 10 yards each time up to 100 yards. Therefore I am thinking about having one set of shots at 50(standing) yards and the other set of shots at 100 yards (kneeling)." sounds like...

fun.

Curt

[Steven Dacus]

Re: Target Practice: Cav vs. Infantry

Curt,

Agreed to all items mentioned above. The safety issues have been addressed and those involved are competent shooters. I just wanted this little part of our event to be a bit more authentic (for once) than just a "Target competition", we wanted to change things from the norm and offer something that hasn't been seen here for a while. Additionally, per the "Target Practice" manual of '62, we are giving away a quality Stadia rangefinder to the winner of the cav (50-100 yds) and another to the winner of the infantry shoot (100-200 yds). I just wanted to see if anyone had done something similar while modeling the targets and the manner of the manuals. Thanks guys