Neat officer "subdued insignia" image

[markj]

Greetings,

Whoa, check this out! I've never seen this type of subdued insignia before.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2234616854&category=13960

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[RyanBWeddle]

Re: Neat officer "subdued insignia" image

Greetings,

Whoa, check this out! I've never seen this type of subdued insignia before.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2234616854&category=13960

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

That's an officers overcoat "Circlet" insignia...

http://howardlanham.tripod.com/link81.htm

[markj]

Re: Neat officer "subdued insignia" image

That's an officers overcoat insignia...


http://howardlanham.tripod.com/link81.htm

Which, of course, raises the inevitable question: Why did he use such an insignia when he could have just as easily acquired suitable items for wear on either his shoulders or collars?

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[CJSchumacher]

Re: Neat officer "subdued insignia" image

Greetings,

Whoa, check this out! I've never seen this type of subdued insignia before.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2234616854&category=13960

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

Mark,

That looks like the insignia authorized to be worn on the overcoat.

edit: looks like Weddle already beat me to it....

Here's the link:

http://www.members.tripod.com/~howardlanham/link81.htm

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Neat officer "subdued insignia" image

Which, of course, raises the inevitable question: Why did he use such an insignia when he could have just as easily acquired suitable items for wear on either his shoulders or collars?

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

The quickest answer shooting from the hip would be; He liked it.

[Bill Cross]

Re: Neat officer "subdued insignia" image

Hi Mark,

Long time, no talk! They're called circlets and there was some discussion awhile back about whether officers would have put them on their overcoats, with the consensus being "why invite a sharpshooter's bullet?" I don't know that's very good scholarship, but it's the way things get settled sometimes around here when John Stillwagon doesn't feel like scolding us for our lack of scholarship when we don't go looking for answers to our questions.

Do you have any idea if this is a wartime or postwar image? I can't say why, but it has the "feel" of the latter, partly because of his age, partly the way the photo is lit, the tile flooring in the background, etc. If it IS post-war, it might be he no longer had his rank insignia sewed on his shoulders?

Another lame guess because I don't know.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Neat officer "subdued insignia" image

I can't say why, but it has the "feel" of the latter, partly because of his age, partly the way the photo is lit, the tile flooring in the background, etc. If it IS post-war, it might be he no longer had his rank insignia sewed on his shoulders?

Another lame guess because I don't know.

It does have an 1866 to 1870ish feel about it, but it is only my gut feeling rather than any insight. Here is the pict.

[country rifle]

more common than we thought.....

Fellow Enthusiasts,

Over the years of researching the numerous Federal Sharpshooting units I have found two different "wartime" images of SS officers wearing the circlets as opposed to wearing the boards.

Other "wartime" images of SS officers show the use of other types of subdued rank such as collar insignia as well as insignia on the shoulders without the boards.

One thing to mention is that the use of the circlets as well as other forms of subdued rank tend to appear in mid to late war images of SS officers which may be a factor of the learning curve of combat.

It also appears that this practice was not confined to the SS units but was also used by officers in the infantry. As time goes by more and more images surface showing the use of subdued rank.


Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Robert Leinweber
Independent Company Sharpshooters

[Peachfuz]

Re: Neat officer "subdued insignia" image

I have to agree w/Mr. Cross, the photo has a GAR feel to it. Also, looking at the way the fabric of the coat is puckering, it would also appear that the circlet is pinned, rather then sewn on. Perhaps Mr. Daley or another clothing guru could chime in on this.
The coat itself is interesting, at first glance it looks like a modified four button sack, note the exterior slash pockets on the breast. However, if you look to his left (nice ring by the way) it would appear to be a frock coat. The fabric seems to have a sheen to it, unlike the picts. of wool jackets I've seen. I tried to zoom in on the buttons, but they blur out on me. Mr. Wickersty, would you be able to work your magic on one of those buttons?

Thanks,
Rich Taddeo

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Neat officer "subdued insignia" image

Rich,

It has a sheen because it is very likely a privately-purchased rather than issue garment and, as such, is made out of higher grade wool.

I blew up the image of the hat. Inside the wreath, there appears to be an "8," an "S" or perhaps even a varient style Ordnance insignia. A similiar Ordnance "flaming bomb" was available during the Indian Wars period again raising the possibility of a post-war image.

[RyanBWeddle]

Re: Neat officer "subdued insignia" image

Just an addendum to this discussion, the latest issue of Military Images has a great article on unusual rank insignia including the circlets.

Unusual Union Rank Insignia
by Dr. Howard G. Lanham
Military Images
Vol. XXV No. 6 May/June 2004 p.10-12